170
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA
3 CHARLOTTE DIVISION
4
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )
5 )
)
6 vs. ) File No. 3:97CR23-P
)
7 AQUILIA MARCIVICCI BARNETTE, )
)
8 Defendant. )
)
9
10
11 Transcript of proceedings before the Honorable
12 ROBERT D. POTTER, Senior United States District Court Judge,
13 before Scott A. Huseby, Official Court Reporter and Notary
14 Public, on the 22nd day of January, 1998.
15 APPEARANCES:
16 For the United States:
17 ROBERT J. CONRAD, JR.
THOMAS G. WALKER
18 Assistant United States Attorneys
227 West Trade Street, Suite 1700
19 Charlotte, North Carolina 28204
20 On Behalf of the Defendant:
21 GEORGE V. LAUGHRUN, Esq.
Suite 602
22 301 South McDowell Street
Charlotte, North Carolina 28204
23
24
25
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1 APPEARANCES: (Continued)
PAUL J. WILLIAMS, Esq.
2 Suite 801
301 South McDowell Street
3 Charlotte, North Carolina 28204
4
5 ---
6
7 THE COURT: Good morning, everyone.
8 MR. CONRAD: Good morning, Judge.
9 MR. LAUGHRUN: Good morning, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: I understand Mr. Laughrun says that
11 Mr. Conrad wants to put something on the record. Is that right,
12 Mr. Conrad?
13 MR. CONRAD: Not that I know of.
14 MR. LAUGHRUN: Well, Judge, yesterday afternoon we
15 had --
16 THE COURT: Maybe you wanted him to put it on the
17 record.
18 MR. LAUGHRUN: Well, no. Yesterday afternoon, he and I
19 talked about the Jencks request we made about 4:00 o'clock,
20 4:15, whenever we recessed. We talked about whether or not
21 there would be any witnesses who had Jencks material. He
22 informed me and I take him at his word as I always have that
23 there is no witness for the government going to testify that
24 testified before the Grand Jury, and if that's the case our
25 Jencks request is a moot issue, if Your Honor please.
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1 MR. CONRAD: That's what I told him.
2 THE COURT: Do you want the put on the record what you
3 said?
4 MR. CONRAD: That's what I told him.
5 THE COURT: Okay, thank you.
6 MR. LAUGHRUN: Judge, also, there are some folks in the
7 courtroom, we don't know if they're witnesses or not, and I --
8 other than the victim impact witnesses, Your Honor already has
9 ruled on over our objection.
10 THE COURT: Any witnesses back there? Shouldn't be.
11 (No response.)
12 MR. LAUGHRUN: I mean, we just don't know who they are
13 and we would just make that request.
14 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. Call the jury.
15 (The jury returned to the courtroom.)
16 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, hope you
17 had a pleasant evening. I'm going to have to ask you each
18 morning whether or not any of you have seen, heard or read
19 anything about this case.
20 (No response.)
21 THE COURT: Anybody discuss it with you?
22 (Jurors shake heads.)
23 THE COURT: All right, thank you very much. I
24 understand from the shaking of the heads that nobody has seen,
25 heard or read anything about it, nor has anyone discussed it
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1 with you, is that correct?
2 (Jurors nod heads.)
3 THE COURT: Thank you very much. Call your next
4 witness.
5 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Melinda
6 Burden.
7 MR. WILLIAMS: What is the name of the witness?
8 MR. CONRAD: Burden.
9 MELINDA BURDEN,
10 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. CONRAD:
13 Q. Would you please state your name for the jury?
14 A. Melinda Burden.
15 Q. Ms. Burden, how old are you?
16 A. 17.
17 Q. In April of '96, how old were you?
18 A. 16.
19 Q. Where do you live?
20 A. Roanoke.
21 Q. Now, in April of 1996, what was your street address?
22 A. I can't remember.
23 Q. Okay. Let me approach and hand to you what's been
24 introduced into evidence as Government's Exhibits 7F, G, H and
25 I, and ask if you recognize this area of Roanoke?
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1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. Okay, and what do you recognize it as?
3 A. That was my house (indicating) right there.
4 Q. All right. And do you know Robin Williams?
5 A. Oh, no, I didn't know her personally.
6 Q. Did you know where she lived?
7 A. Uh-huh, right here.
8 Q. Okay. So your house is right here (indicating)?
9 A. Uh-huh.
10 Q. And Robin Williams' house is on the corner that you just
11 pointed out?
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. Is there -- does your house include this property in
14 here (indicating)?
15 A. All the way to back here it does (indicating).
16 Q. And is there a path that goes through that area?
17 A. Yes, there is a way you can come over here in the yard
18 and look all the way down and see everything down here.
19 Q. If you go down that path, can you see Robin Williams'
20 apartment from your property?
21 A. Uh-huh.
22 Q. In April of 1996, did anything unusual happen?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. In the wee hours of the morning?
25 A. Uh-huh.
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1 Q. Go ahead and tell the jury what happened.
2 A. I was sleeping and I heard, I think it was four
3 gunshots.
4 Q. Uh-huh?
5 A. And I woke up and I went outside, and I heard this woman
6 screaming and banging on the people's doors screaming, help me,
7 help me, he is going to kill me. And I heard glass breaking,
8 and I seen a car come up my road with loud music on, and the
9 person that was in it went down a dead end street, came back
10 right by my house, by me and my mother. And he had his arm up,
11 looked like he was adjusting the rear view mirror, and I seen
12 the fire of a cigarette in the passenger seat, and that's really
13 all I seen.
14 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have, Judge.
15 THE COURT: Cross?
16 CROSS-EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. LAUGHRUN:
18 Q. Ms. Burden, did you give a statement to the police,
19 ma'am?
20 A. My mother did.
21 Q. No, did you give one, ma'am?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Give a statement to any FBI agents?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Who did you talk to, ma'am?
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1 A. I think it was Mr. Conrad.
2 Q. Mr. Conrad being the prosecutor here?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you talk to anybody besides Mr. Conrad or Mr. Walker
5 seated at that table?
6 A. Yeah, I talked to a man that came to my house.
7 Q. Did he write down what you said?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did he record it on tape or any way at all?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Is that someone from the Roanoke police department?
12 A. Yes, I think.
13 Q. Now, you folks had some dogs on your property, did you
14 not?
15 A. Right.
16 Q. When you lived there?
17 A. Yes, we had one.
18 Q. And did it sleep outside?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Was it barking that night?
21 A. I'm not sure.
22 Q. And you can't identify anybody in the car, can you?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Can you give us a description of the car?
25 A. It was like a little sports car. It had primer spots on
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1 it.
2 Q. Okay. Have you ever been shown a picture of that car at
3 all?
4 A. No.
5 MR. LAUGHRUN: Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, Judge
6 Potter.
7 THE COURT: Redirect?
8 MR. CONRAD: No, sir.
9 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am, appreciating you coming,
10 thank you. Call your next witness.
11 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Maude
12 Hubbard.
13 MAUDE G. HUBBARD,
14 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
15 DIRECT EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. CONRAD:
17 Q. Ms. Hubbard, can you state your name for the jury?
18 A. My name is Maude G. Hubbard, and the G is for Gail.
19 Q. Do they also call you Granny?
20 A. Right, right.
21 Q. Where do you live, Ms. Hubbard?
22 A. I live at 1618 Keswick Avenue, Northeast, that's -- I
23 moved downstairs. I were staying at 1614. They moved me down
24 up underneath there.
25 Q. And that's in Roanoke?
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1 A. Right, Roanoke, Virginia.
2 Q. And 1614, would that be the apartment next to --
3 A. Next to where Robin, yes, sir.
4 Q. Next to 1616?
5 A. Right, right.
6 Q. And in April of last year, or I'm sorry, April of 1996,
7 were you living in 1614, next door to --
8 A. Yes, I were.
9 Q. And then sometime after that, you moved down behind in
10 the back of the apartment?
11 A. Right, right.
12 Q. Okay. Do you know Bertha Williams?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. How do you know Ms. Williams?
15 A. We all go to church, we are in the same church together,
16 and I been knowing her for a number of years. We worked
17 together.
18 Q. Do you see her in the courtroom today?
19 A. Bertha Williams?
20 Q. Yes, ma'am.
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 Q. Do you know Robin Williams?
23 A. Yes, I do.
24 Q. How do you know Robin?
25 A. I knew her from a young girl when she was in school. I
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1 been knowing her practically all of my life.
2 Q. And at some time, did Robin move next door to you?
3 A. Yes, she did.
4 Q. Okay. And at some time, did a boyfriend ever move in
5 with her?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you remember the events of the night of the fire
8 bombing?
9 A. Yes, I do, but I had gone to sleep. See, I'm a
10 diabetic, and I had went to sleep, and they came there and woke
11 me up and said, Granny, get up, get up, get up.
12 Q. And who did that?
13 A. That was Doris Coleman, the lady up the hill from me.
14 Q. And after Doris Coleman -- how did she wake you up?
15 A. She just kept hollering, Granny, Granny, Granny, Granny
16 and knocking at the door. And Mr. Grub stayed down up under me,
17 I'm staying in his apartment now, and he came up there and his
18 little boy and said, Come on, get on out, Granny, get on out.
19 And I seen all of this out there, I just didn't know what was
20 going on.
21 Q. Okay. And after Ms. Coleman and Mr. Grub got you up,
22 what happened after that?
23 A. Well, I just like everybody else, I put my coat and
24 stood there and seen the fire trucks and everything. And at
25 that time, Ms. Coleman come down, well, see, Robin, I heard
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1 someone hollering. But you know when you are in the apartment
2 at my age, you know, I didn't catch her voice until she went up
3 and then she came back, and then she was hollering Granny,
4 Granny, help me, help me, Granny, this didn't have to happen to
5 me. And they brought her in there and they had this cloth on
6 her arm, and she went to pull on it and all the flesh and
7 everything fell. I said, oh, my God. She said, call my mama,
8 when I tried to -- I didn't have a phone, my wires had been cut.
9 Q. So as best as you can remember, what did Robin tell you
10 when she came with the towel around her arm, what did she say to
11 you?
12 A. She just said, Granny, look here, look, Granny, said, he
13 tried to kill me, tried to kill me, said, Granny, I don't
14 deserve this, Granny, I don't deserve this. And I told her, she
15 said, call my mama. But I went there to try to call her, but
16 there was no phone, the phone was dead.
17 Q. Did you pick up your phone?
18 A. Yeah, I picked it up and it was dead, and I said,
19 Robin --
20 Q. There was no dial tone?
21 A. No dial tone whatsoever.
22 Q. Did you later learn what happened to your phone?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Tell the jury about that.
25 A. I learned that Mark had cut my line and hers.
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1 Q. And how did you learn that?
2 A. Huh?
3 Q. How did you learn that?
4 A. Well, that's what Mr. Grub said, it's the only way,
5 because everybody else had telephone service but me and Robin.
6 Q. Did he show you anything, Mr. Grub, did Mr. Grub show
7 you anything the next day?
8 A. Yeah, next day he went out there and just, you know, put
9 it back for me.
10 Q. Did you see the phone lines?
11 A. Yeah, it was -- before he cut it, he showed me, uh-huh.
12 Q. All right. Now, with Robin living next door to you, did
13 you -- did you have occasion to see her coming and going?
14 A. Yeah, I seen her coming and going to work.
15 Q. Did you ever see her boyfriend Mark Barnette come?
16 A. Yes, all the time, because he drove the car most of the
17 time. He'd take her to work and go pick her up from work.
18 Q. And you would see Mr. Barnette doing that?
19 A. Yeah, I seen him, uh-huh.
20 Q. Would Robin drive the car or would Mr. Barnette?
21 A. Mr. Barnette. He did most of the driving.
22 Q. And whose car was it?
23 A. It was Robin's.
24 Q. Okay. Now, you had indicated that your -- you are a
25 family friend, is that accurate, you're a friend of the Williams
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1 family?
2 A. Right, right.
3 Q. Long time?
4 A. Long time.
5 Q. After Robin moved in next door to you, did she ever come
6 over and talk with you?
7 A. Me and her, we just had a little, small stoop. We'd sit
8 there and talk. She confirmed different things with me, because
9 she'd always, you know, asking for advice and I -- you know, I
10 have children and I know, and I always talked to her, give her
11 as a mother and a grandmother.
12 Q. Did she ever talk to you about her relationship with
13 Mr. Barnette?
14 A. Yes, she did.
15 Q. And what would she tell you?
16 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection, Judge.
17 THE WITNESS: She just said he done got to be so
18 possessive.
19 MR. CONRAD: Granny, hang on a second.
20 THE COURT: Wait just a minute, there's an objection.
21 You're objecting to this on what grounds?
22 MR. LAUGHRUN: Hearsay, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Overruled.
24 BY MR. CONRAD:
25 Q. Go ahead, Granny, what did Robin tell you about her
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1 relationship with the defendant?
2 A. She said she couldn't get rid of him, she just didn't
3 want to be bothered with him, she wanted him out of there, he
4 was too possessive.
5 Q. Did she tell you why she wanted to get rid of him?
6 A. Because he was fighting her and --
7 Q. Were there ever any incidents before the fire bombing?
8 A. Yes, it was, yes, it was.
9 Q. And would you hear that?
10 A. Did I hear it? No, she came back out of the house from
11 her apartment over there to tell me -- to call her mother one
12 night. He had jumped on her.
13 Q. And how long before the fire bombing did that occur?
14 A. It wasn't too long, really I just couldn't exactly tell
15 you the date and all that.
16 Q. On that night when she came over and said he had jumped
17 on her, what was her attitude like?
18 A. Nothing, she just said, I want my mama, I want my mama,
19 I'm going to call my mama. And it wasn't but a few minutes
20 before sister Bertha was there.
21 Q. So you did call Ms. Williams at least on one occasion to
22 tell her about the fire bombing?
23 A. Yes, I called her, yeah, I called her.
24 Q. And then she came over?
25 A. Yes.
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1 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have, Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: Cross?
3 CROSS-EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. WILLIAMS:
5 Q. When you first, Ms. Hubbard, knew that Robin and Mark
6 were dating, at the beginning of that relationship, she was very
7 happy and in love with Mark, wasn't she?
8 A. Seemed like it to me, she did.
9 MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you.
10 THE COURT: Redirect?
11 MR. CONRAD: No, sir.
12 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am, you may step down,
13 appreciating you coming. Call your next witness.
14 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Ray Williams.
15 RAY WILLIAMS,
16 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. CONRAD:
19 Q. Sir, would you state your name for the jury?
20 A. Ray Williams.
21 Q. Mr. Williams, are you related to Bertha Williams?
22 A. Brother, yes, sir.
23 Q. She is your sister?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Do you see Bertha in the courtroom today?
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1 A. Today?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. Yes, I see her back there.
4 Q. So, Robin Williams would be your niece?
5 A. That's right.
6 Q. Do you remember an incident -- I'm sorry, Mr. Williams,
7 where do you live?
8 A. I live at 703 Hunt Avenue, Roanoke, apartment 27.
9 Q. And back in April of 1996, where did you live?
10 A. 911 Loudon.
11 Q. And is that your sister Bertha's house at 911 Loudon
12 Avenue in Roanoke?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Do you remember a time in April when -- did you know
15 where Robin lived back then?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. Did you recall a time when her apartment was fire
18 bombed?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Where did Robin go after her apartment was fire bombed?
21 A. She went to the hospital.
22 Q. And how long was she at the hospital, best you can
23 remember?
24 A. I don't remember all that, but she was in there quite a
25 while.
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1 Q. Okay. And during the time that she was at the hospital,
2 do you know if that hospital was in Charlottesville, Virginia?
3 A. Charlottesville.
4 Q. And was your sister Bertha in Charlottesville at that
5 time with Robin?
6 A. Yes, sir, all the time.
7 Q. And were you living -- strike that.
8 Was your nephew Kenneth with his mother in
9 Charlottesville?
10 A. Yes, he was.
11 Q. So were you living by yourself at 911 Loudon during that
12 time?
13 A. At that time, yes.
14 Q. And during that time when Robin was at the hospital in
15 Charlottesville, did you receive a phone call?
16 A. I sure did.
17 Q. All right, and go ahead and tell the jury about that
18 phone call.
19 A. Well, the -- the fellow called and wanted to say he was
20 concerned about Robin, wanted to know how she was.
21 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection to hearsay.
22 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Objection overruled, go
23 ahead.
24 THE WITNESS: And wanted to know where she was at, and I
25 told him, you know where she is at.
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1 BY MR. CONRAD:
2 Q. Let me stop you right there Mr. Williams and ask you a
3 couple of questions. When the fellow called and asked about
4 Robin, did you recognize the voice?
5 A. I sure did.
6 Q. How did you recognize the voice?
7 A. Well, I knew who he was, because I been seeing him the
8 whole time he was with Robin.
9 Q. And whose voice was it that you heard on the phone?
10 A. Well, it was Mark.
11 Q. Do you see the person you've called Mark in the
12 courtroom today?
13 A. Yes, right there.
14 Q. Would you point him out to the jury and tell the jury
15 what he is wearing?
16 A. There he is right there.
17 Q. At the table next to me?
18 A. Next to you.
19 Q. Sitting in the middle between two gentlemen?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Now, prior to getting that phone call, how many times
22 had you seen or heard Mark's voice?
23 A. Oh, every time he come up to the house or come around,
24 you know, I knew who it was.
25 Q. Is there any doubt in your mind that's who you talked to
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1 on that phone?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Okay. Now, as best you remember, tell the jury exactly
4 how the conversation went.
5 A. From what I remember, he called and asked me how was
6 Robin.
7 Q. And what did you say?
8 A. I just remember, but he said, what did he say, he was
9 concerned about Robin, where was she at, and I told him, you
10 know where she is at, just like that. And we just had a few
11 more words or something like that, you know.
12 Q. Did you ask him why he did it?
13 A. I sure did. I said, Mark, why would you do something to
14 Robin like that, and he told me, sir, Ray, I didn't do it but I
15 know who done it, just like that. And I told him he is a
16 goddamn liar, just to use my expression, and hung up in his
17 face.
18 Q. And after you hung up with him, what did you do?
19 A. I just remember I think I called somebody, I don't know
20 who I called.
21 Q. Do you remember calling Kenny?
22 A. I talked to Kenny on the phone.
23 Q. After you hung up, did you make any attempt to figure
24 out what number he had called you from?
25 A. Well, he told me, Kenny told me to --
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1 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
2 THE WITNESS: -- look on the --
3 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
4 THE COURT: Overruled.
5 MR. CONRAD: Go ahead, Ray.
6 THE WITNESS: To look on the box and get the number, but
7 I really don't remember too much about that.
8 BY MR. CONRAD:
9 Q. Well, did you -- let me ask you this: Did you look on
10 the box and get the number?
11 A. Yeah, I did, I did. I wrote the number down.
12 Q. You wrote the number down. Did you ever tell Kenny the
13 number?
14 A. Yes, I did.
15 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have.
16 THE COURT: Cross?
17 BY MR. WILLIAMS:
18 Q. Mr. Williams, just very briefly. When you first met
19 Mark and knew that they were -- he had met and began a
20 relationship, at the beginning of that relationship you knew
21 that Robin and he were very much in love?
22 A. I don't know nothing about all that being very much in
23 love, it was just a little old fling, you know, that's all I
24 thought it was, a little old fling.
25 Q. When Mark moved into the apartment with Robin, didn't
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1 you help Mark move in?
2 A. Did I help? I was there. I didn't help, I couldn't do
3 nothing.
4 MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir.
5 THE COURT: No redirect, thank you very much.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
7 THE COURT: Call your next witness.
8 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Kenneth
9 Williams.
10 KENNETH WILLIAMS,
11 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
12 DIRECT EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. CONRAD:
14 Q. Would you tell the jury your name, please?
15 A. Kenneth Williams.
16 Q. Kenneth, you are going to have to pull that microphone
17 closer to you.
18 A. Kenneth Williams.
19 Q. And Kenneth, do you live in Roanoke, Virginia?
20 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
21 Q. Are you related to Bertha Williams?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. How?
24 A. That's my mother.
25 Q. And so Robin Williams would be your sister?
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1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Now, you've been in the courtroom during this testimony,
3 have you not?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Did you hear your Uncle Ray just testify?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Did there come a time when you talked to him from
8 Charlottesville, Virginia?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And what did you talk about?
11 A. Well, I was down there and I called up there because he
12 was staying at my mother's house to see if he was all right.
13 And we talked, and then he told me that Mark had called there
14 and he told me what he had said, where she was at. And then
15 I -- and then I hung up, and then I went back in the room
16 because I called from a pay phone. And I told my mother to come
17 outside or something, out of the room because I didn't want my
18 sister to hear, and I told her that Uncle Ray said that he had
19 called. And she said, Kenny, call him back and tell them to
20 push the I.D. and get the number, so I did. Then afterwards --
21 Q. Just take your time, Kenny.
22 A. Huh?
23 Q. Just take your time.
24 A. Okay. And then afterwards, I called the operator to see
25 what area code, what city, and she told me it was North
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1 Carolina, so I said okay. So the next day --
2 Q. Did there come a time -- did your Uncle Ray give
3 you -- did he -- do you know whether or not he pushed the I.D.
4 button to get that number?
5 A. Well, I didn't actually see him do that.
6 Q. Right, but did there come a time when he gave you a
7 number?
8 A. Yes, sir, that's correct. That's when I called him back
9 because my mother told me to call him back, and I asked, and I
10 said, Uncle Ray, mama said push the caller I.D. to see if there
11 is a number, and he did and he gave me the number.
12 Q. Did there come a time when you took that number and
13 called the Roanoke Police Department?
14 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
15 Q. And did you give that number to them?
16 A. Yes, sir. I called the next day, because it was at
17 night. The next day I called down to the office of the
18 detective that was in charge. I didn't talk to Mr. Kahl or
19 nothing. I talked to somebody and I told them what had
20 happened, told them who I was, and gave them the phone number
21 and told them what had happened and that was it.
22 MR. CONRAD: No further questions.
23 THE COURT: Cross?
24 MR. WILLIAMS: No questions, Mr. Williams.
25 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. Call your next witness.
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1 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Sydney
2 Williams.
3 SYDNEY WILLIAMS,
4 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. CONRAD:
7 Q. Would you tell the jury your name, please?
8 A. Sydney Williams.
9 Q. Sydney, are you Robin's brother?
10 A. Yes, I am.
11 Q. Where do you live, Sydney?
12 A. I live at 1441 Leon Street, Northwest, Roanoke,
13 Virginia.
14 Q. And how long have you lived there?
15 A. About six, five years.
16 Q. And do you know Mark Barnette?
17 A. Yes, I do.
18 Q. Do you see him the courtroom today?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. Could you point him out and describe him to the jury?
21 A. The gentleman right there in the middle of the two
22 lawyers with the blue suit coat on.
23 Q. How do you know Mark Barnette?
24 A. He was dating my sister. We used to have family outings
25 together and everything and he came around.
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1 Q. How frequently did you see him?
2 A. Well, I seen him like maybe once a month or maybe a
3 little bit more than that, because I used to work right around
4 the corner from where they were staying at and I used to go on
5 lunch break and go by there to check on her.
6 Q. Back in April of 1996, where were you working?
7 A. April of '96? At the golf course.
8 Q. And where was that golf course located?
9 A. It was located up by -- because like then, see, I was
10 actually living across the corner from them, but then I had
11 moved to the golf course, so that was like maybe two miles away
12 from my house on the other side of town.
13 Q. And what did you do at the golf course?
14 A. Actually cut the greens and the intermediates.
15 Q. And from time to time while you were working at the golf
16 course, would you come home for lunch?
17 A. Yes, I used to go home for lunch every day.
18 Q. Now, you remember the fire bombing, do you not?
19 A. Yes, I was called to the fire.
20 Q. Sometime after the fire bombing, do you recall coming
21 home for lunch from work and finding anything unusual?
22 A. Yes. Well, I had my sister's car parked at my house,
23 because my sister was in the hospital and we was running back
24 and forth up the interstate.
25 Q. Go ahead and speak up if you can.
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1 A. Okay.
2 Q. What kind of car did your sister have?
3 A. She had a green Toyota.
4 Q. Okay. And where was your sister when her car was parked
5 at your house?
6 A. She was in the hospital.
7 Q. And go ahead, you were about to tell the jury what
8 happened on the day that you came home from the golf course when
9 your sister's car was parked at your house. Go ahead and tell
10 them.
11 A. Okay. Well, like when you come to my house, I had a car
12 facing the carport, so I just walked right by the house and I
13 went in and made me a couple of sandwiches. And when I came out
14 of the house, you know, because when I walked by the house, I
15 didn't really like look at the front of the car, and I went and
16 made a couple sandwiches and I came back out and I seen the
17 cards on her windshield with the windshield wipers holding the
18 cards on the windshield.
19 Q. What kind of cards were they?
20 A. They was like old cards that she had wrote to him like
21 when they was together or having a long distance
22 conversation -- I mean, a long distance relationship.
23 Q. Okay. And after you found those cards on her
24 windshield, what did you do?
25 A. I proceeded to be late for work and went straight down
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1 to my mom's to check on her because she had came home then.
2 Q. Who had come home then?
3 A. My sister Robin, she had came home from the hospital.
4 My mom was at work and I was at work and everything, so I went
5 straight down there and I checked the house and checked on her.
6 And so I got on the phone and I called --
7 Q. Now, when you went over to your mother's house, was
8 Robin there alone?
9 A. Yes. So then I got on the phone and I called over to my
10 Aunt Cary's house and Uncle Ray was there. So I got in the car
11 and went and picked him up, and I didn't never tell Robin
12 anything, I just went and got my uncle and picked him up from
13 Aunt Cary's and took him to Robin. But I had told him
14 everything so he could be right there with her.
15 Q. Why did you do that?
16 A. Because I didn't know if he was in town or -- he had to
17 have been in town because the cards wasn't there when I left to
18 go to work that morning.
19 Q. When you say he, who are you referring to?
20 A. Mark Barnette.
21 Q. Did you drop Ray off at your mother's house?
22 A. At my mother's house and went back and walked back
23 around the side of the house to make sure there wasn't anyone
24 around.
25 Q. All right. And what did you do after that?
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1 A. Uncle Ray said he was going to take care of everything
2 and be around the house, so then I just proceeded to go back to
3 work.
4 Q. Let me hand to you what has been marked for
5 identification as Government's Exhibits 50A, 50B, 50C, 50D, 50E,
6 50F and 50G and ask you, Sydney, if you recognize those
7 exhibits? Go ahead and look at each one.
8 A. Yes, sir, these are the same cards, because this one
9 right here was right on the top of the stack of cards that was
10 on the windshield of her car.
11 Q. Go ahead and speak up if you can.
12 A. Okay. These are the same cards, because these was the
13 ones that was on the windshield of her car.
14 Q. And you are referring to 50B as being the card that was
15 on the top?
16 A. It was right on the top.
17 Q. All right. Now, did you look at those cards when you
18 took them off of your windshield?
19 A. Yes, I did.
20 Q. Go ahead and take 50B out of the --
21 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, I'd move admission of
22 Government's Exhibit 50A through 50G.
23 THE COURT: They will be admitted.
24 BY MR. CONRAD:
25 Q. Turning your attention to Government's Exhibit 50B,
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1 would you take it out of the plastic and open it up and look at
2 it. Now, does that have any names on it?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What names does it have?
5 A. They got Robin and Mark.
6 Q. In a heart?
7 A. And a heart, it's designed in a heart, forever and ever,
8 and it's got Robin to where she signed it right here.
9 Q. At the bottom of Government's Exhibit 50B?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Turn your attention to the front of it. Is there any
12 writing on the front of the card?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What is the writing?
15 A. It's got, why did you lie.
16 Q. Exclamation point?
17 A. Exclamation point.
18 Q. Does it look like there's a signature scrawled at the
19 bottom?
20 A. It's some kind of signature, but I don't really know
21 what it is, I mean, it's like at the bottom.
22 Q. Now, if you would with each of the exhibits, would you
23 take them out of the plastic, look at them, see if there is any
24 names on the inside? Turn your attention to Government's
25 Exhibit's 50F. Is it signed by anybody?
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1 A. Yes, it's signed by Robin.
2 Q. And turning your attention to the front of that card, is
3 there any writing on the front of the card?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. What does it say?
6 A. It says, if you loved him so much, why did you even
7 bother with me. And it got the same like signature thing in the
8 bottom right here.
9 Q. Does it appear to be initials at the bottom?
10 A. Yes, same thing as 50B has on the bottom.
11 Q. Turning your attention to 50G, anything inside, any
12 names mentioned inside?
13 A. Yes, it's the same right here about Robin, my sister.
14 Q. And on the front of it, is there any writing on the
15 front of it?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What does it say?
18 A. It says, you never really loved me, and it has the same
19 thing at the bottom that the other two exhibits has.
20 Q. Let me ask you to look at 50E.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Signed by Robin?
23 A. Yes, signed by her. And the front has the, why wasn't I
24 good enough for you, and it got the same signature thing on
25 there.
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1 Q. Okay. 50D?
2 A. Yes, this one is the same also.
3 Q. By Robin?
4 A. By Robin Williams.
5 Q. And on the front?
6 A. It got, you lied to me, with the same signature emblem.
7 Q. 50C?
8 A. This one isn't signed.
9 Q. It says, loving you more, Poo?
10 A. Yes, loving you more, Poo, that's what it says.
11 Q. On the 21st birthday?
12 A. Yes, that's what it got, right here.
13 Q. And on the front -- or turning your attention to the
14 back of that card, is there anything written on the back of the
15 card?
16 A. Yes, it is, sir.
17 Q. And what does it say?
18 A. It's got, Robin, you didn't have to lie about Bennie, if
19 you loved him so much, you should have never fucked our
20 lives -- I mean --
21 Q. Is it faked?
22 A. -- faked our love, faked your love for me.
23 Q. And is there a box with more writing?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What does it say?
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1 A. These are just a sample of your lies.
2 Q. And finally, 50A?
3 A. It has Poo on it also.
4 Q. And on the front, is there writing on the front?
5 A. Yes, it is.
6 Q. What is the writing on the front?
7 A. You let him come between us, with an exclamation point.
8 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, may I pass Government's
9 Exhibits 50A through 50G to the jury?
10 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
11 BY MR. CONRAD:
12 Q. Sydney, do you know how long after the fire bombing that
13 you came home and found these cards?
14 A. I would say approximately about, after the fire bombing,
15 because she had just came home, I would say about maybe three
16 weeks.
17 Q. Three weeks after?
18 A. After the fire bombing.
19 Q. How far was your house at that time from 911 Loudon
20 Avenue?
21 A. Approximately about maybe two and a half to three miles.
22 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have, Judge.
23 THE COURT: Cross?
24 MR. WILLIAMS: I don't have any questions, thank you,
25 sir.
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1 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, the government would call Mark
2 Etters.
3 MARK ETTERS,
4 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. WALKER:
7 Q. Good morning, sir, will you state your full name,
8 please?
9 A. Mark Allen Etters.
10 Q. And Mr. Etters, can you tell us by whom you are employed
11 and what you do for that company?
12 A. I work for Marriott International at the Courtyard by
13 Marriott located on Arrowood Road. I'm the general manager of
14 the hotel.
15 Q. And that hotel which you manage, that's here in
16 Charlotte, is that correct?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. How long have you worked as the general manager of the
19 Courtyard by Marriott hotel at that location?
20 A. About two and a half years, sir.
21 Q. What are your general duties as manager of that
22 particular hotel?
23 A. I run the hotel from the operational standpoint and I
24 report directly to Marriott International about all of the
25 events of the hotel.
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1 Q. As part of your duties and responsibilities, do you have
2 access to former employee files?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. At my request, did I ask you to look into whether or not
5 your hotel at that location at one time or another employed the
6 defendant in this case, Mark, Barnette?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And would you tell the members of the jury what your
9 investigation showed?
10 A. We show that he did work at the hotel. He worked as a
11 night auditor in our hotel, and he left our employment 3-10-95.
12 Q. And when did he begin employment at that hotel?
13 A. He was there about a year, I believe it was April
14 of '94.
15 Q. What were his responsibilities as the night auditor at
16 your hotel?
17 A. The night auditor, he worked the evening shift, which is
18 from 11:00 at night until 7:00 in the morning, and he reconciles
19 the hotel's receipts on a daily basis. He was a full-time
20 employee. He balances the daily records of the hotel.
21 Q. Who was his direct supervisor while he was at that
22 position?
23 A. Ed Brumfield was the previous general manager at the
24 hotel.
25 Q. Was there a Scott Zehner employed by the hotel at that
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1 time?
2 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
3 Q. And was he there at the time the defendant was working
4 at your hotel?
5 A. Yes, sir, he was.
6 Q. What was Mr. Zehner's position?
7 A. He was the front desk manager.
8 MR. WALKER: I don't have any other questions, Your
9 Honor.
10 THE COURT: Cross?
11 MR. LAUGHRUN: No questions, Judge.
12 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, the government calls Lori
13 Quinn.
14 LORI LEE QUINN,
15 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. WALKER:
18 Q. Would you state your full name, please?
19 A. Lori Lee Quinn.
20 Q. And Ms. Quinn, by whom are you employed?
21 A. Camelot Music, Incorporated.
22 Q. And what do you do for Camelot Music, Incorporated?
23 A. I'm manager of employee relations and recruiting.
24 Q. Is Camelot Music, Incorporated, is that a chain music
25 store?
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1 A. Yes, it is.
2 Q. How many stores do you have in the United States?
3 A. 320.
4 Q. Do you have a store or stores in Roanoke, Virginia?
5 A. Yes, we do.
6 Q. Tell me what your primary responsibilities and duties
7 are with your title at Camelot Music company?
8 A. I manage the entire employee relations function, which
9 includes overseeing employment records. I handle all recruiting
10 for corporate positions.
11 THE COURT: Excuse me just a minute.
12 THE CLERK: Just back off on the microphone, thank you.
13 THE COURT: Pull that microphone, just sit back a little
14 bit from it.
15 MR. WALKER: It's real sensitive. You can just sit back
16 there and talk.
17 THE WITNESS: Okay. Employee issues that arise, I
18 oversee the record retention department of all employment files
19 of --
20 BY MR. WALKER:
21 Q. Do those include former employment files?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. If someone works for one of your stores, do you keep
24 records of that employee's employment application?
25 A. Yes, we do.
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1 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
2 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
3 BY MR. WALKER:
4 Q. I want to show you what has been marked as Government's
5 Exhibit 13, it consists of three pages, and I will ask you if
6 you can identify that, and if so, what is it?
7 A. The application for employment from Camelot Music, it's
8 the first two pages, and the third page is the resume.
9 Q. Okay. And at my request, did you research your former
10 employee files for possible employment for the defendant in this
11 case, Aquilia Marcivicci Barnette?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And did you retrieve that particular document, that is,
14 that employment application and resume that have you in front of
15 you?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Is that document kept on file with your company in the
18 ordinary course of business?
19 A. Yes.
20 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move that document into
21 evidence, that being Government's Exhibit 13.
22 THE COURT: 13 will be admitted.
23 BY MR. WALKER:
24 Q. Referring your attention now to that employment
25 application, does it indicate, if you would, the date that
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1 Mr. Barnette first applied or began employment with your company
2 in Roanoke?
3 A. The application was completed 5-19-95 -- I believe
4 that's 4-19-95.
5 Q. Did you bring your records with you?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. Do you want to refer to those -- this is a copy, is that
8 correct?
9 A. Yes, it is.
10 Q. Do you have the original of that document?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. If you want to refer to those, you may do so.
13 A. Mr. Barnette started his employment with Camelot on 3-20
14 of '95.
15 Q. That was March 20th of 1995?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And at which store was Mr. Barnette employed?
18 A. Number 185, Valley View Mall in Roanoke, Virginia.
19 Q. And what was he employed, what was his capacity of
20 employment?
21 A. He started as a sales associate.
22 Q. And what happened after that?
23 A. He was promoted to assistant manager in November of '95,
24 and then his employment was separated January 25th of 1996.
25 Q. So the employment ended in January of 1996?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I will give you your documents back. And in his
3 employment application on the document identified as
4 Government's Exhibit 13, did Mr. Barnette indicate his reasons
5 for seeking employment?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What was written on the form?
8 A. I just relocated to Roanoke area, I would love the
9 opportunity to join the Camelot team, I am also a great guy.
10 Q. Let me ask you one other question. In the personnel
11 data portion of this application, did he list his home
12 residence?
13 A. Yes, he did.
14 Q. And what was the residence listed?
15 A. 1616 Keswick Avenue, Northeast, Roanoke, Virginia,
16 24012.
17 MR. WALKER: I don't have any other questions, Your
18 Honor.
19 THE COURT: Cross?
20 MR. LAUGHRUN: Thank you, Judge Potter, no questions.
21 THE COURT: Thank you. Call your next witness.
22 MR. WALKER: May I pass Government's Exhibit 13 as I
23 call the next witness?
24 THE COURT: Yes.
25 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, the government calls Thomas
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1 Hodges.
2 THOMAS H. HODGES,
3 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. WALKER:
6 Q. Sir, if you will sit back normally in that chair, that
7 microphone is very sensitive, would you state your full name?
8 A. Thomas H. Hodges.
9 Q. And Mr. Hodges, what do you do for a living?
10 A. Run the Electrolux store in Roanoke.
11 Q. You run the, pardon me?
12 A. Electrolux.
13 Q. And the Electrolux store is what type of business?
14 A. It's a vacuum cleaner business.
15 Q. What do you do there at that store, do you have a
16 particular title?
17 A. I manage the store.
18 Q. Were you managing the store back in April of 1996 and
19 from that point up until the present time?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Do you recall at a point back in February of 1996 in
22 which you conducted an interview with an individual named Mark
23 Barnette?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Do you see that person in the courtroom today?
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1 A. Yes.
2 THE COURT: Could you speak up just a little bit?
3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
4 BY MR. WALKER:
5 Q. As a part of your duties as the manager of the
6 Electrolux store, do you meet with potential employees?
7 A. Yes, I do.
8 Q. And explain the process that one would go through to
9 apply for a position with your business.
10 A. Well, basically you take a resume, find out a little bit
11 about the people, tell them a little bit about what we do, take
12 them out to look at the business, sit down and talk to them. If
13 they feel like that that's something they could learn to do,
14 would enjoy doing it, then we sit down and fill out a formal
15 application as far as employment.
16 Q. And did you eventually hire Mr. Barnette?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. In what position was he hired, what was he hired to do?
19 A. Sales and service.
20 Q. When you say sales, is that sales to the public?
21 A. Sales to the public, servicing equipment that's already
22 out there.
23 Q. Did he complete an employment application with you?
24 A. Yes, he did.
25 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
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1 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
2 BY MR. WALKER:
3 Q. Let me show you Government's Exhibit 14, it consists of
4 two pages, and I will ask you if you can recognize that
5 document, and if so, what is it?
6 A. Yes, that's the standard documents that they fill out
7 that goes into Atlanta, Georgia as far as employment.
8 Q. And is that particular application, is that the
9 application that you referred to that you completed with the
10 defendant?
11 A. Yes, it is.
12 Q. It consists of two pages, is that correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. And at what time or what date was that employment
15 application completed?
16 A. It was on February 15th of '96.
17 Q. Of 1996?
18 A. Uh-huh.
19 Q. Did he indicate what his residence was there in Roanoke
20 when he interviewed with your company?
21 A. Keswick Avenue, Northwest -- Northeast, Roanoke.
22 Q. And did he give a number for the Keswick Avenue?
23 A. 1616, I believe is what that says.
24 Q. At some time, did the defendant's employment with your
25 company come to an end?
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1 A. Yes, it did.
2 Q. And when was that?
3 A. That was sometime between April the 10th and the 15th.
4 Q. Of 1996?
5 A. Uh-huh.
6 Q. And did you talk with the defendant about that?
7 A. He had called and he had equipment checked out and he
8 called me and asked me to come over and pick up the equipment,
9 because he was in the process of trying to move at that
10 particular time.
11 Q. Did you go over to his apartment on Keswick Avenue?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. What did you see when you went to that location?
14 A. I saw a loading truck. I believe it was two gentlemen
15 that was there. I am thinking one of them is his dad.
16 Q. Did you see the defendant there?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And what were they doing with this loading truck?
19 A. He was getting his equipment out. I believe there was
20 also a police officer there at the time.
21 Q. Did you know where the defendant was going to live, did
22 you ever have a conversation with him about that?
23 A. He wrote down an address of where he was moving to, to
24 send his final check to him.
25 Q. And what was that, Charlotte, North Carolina?
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1 A. It was in Charlotte, North Carolina.
2 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move admission of
3 Government's Exhibit 14 and I don't have any other questions of
4 this witness.
5 THE COURT: It may be admitted. Cross?
6 MR. LAUGHRUN: Thank you, Judge Potter.
7 CROSS-EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. LAUGHRUN:
9 Q. Mr. Hodge, the address he wrote down, was that 3413 West
10 Boulevard, Charlotte?
11 A. I believe that's -- I don't have the information with
12 me, I believe it is, but I think you have a copy of the address
13 that he wrote down.
14 Q. Now, you hired Mark, you never saw any violent
15 tendencies in him, did you?
16 A. As far as at work in the work situation, I never had any
17 customer complaints or anything of that nature.
18 Q. And, in fact, he wasn't your best salesmen and wasn't
19 your worst salesmen, is that a fair statement?
20 A. He really wasn't there long enough to really learn our
21 business, but he was average.
22 Q. Now, when he got ready to move back to Charlotte, he
23 called you and asked to come to the Keswick apartment to pick up
24 your equipment, did you not?
25 A. Yes, he did.
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1 Q. That was the equipment you entrusted him to go out and
2 demonstrate the product line, things like that, is that right?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. No allegation of any theft or anything when he was
5 working with you, is that a fair statement?
6 A. I think he was like short of one quart of shampoo or
7 something, and he took care of that and we mailed his last check
8 to him.
9 Q. No other problems with stealing or anything like that,
10 is that correct?
11 A. Not that I know of.
12 Q. Mr. Hodge, do you recall an awards banquet in
13 Blacksburg, Virginia that took place while Mark was in your
14 employment and he went with Robin Williams and attended that
15 banquet and you met her, do you recall that incident?
16 A. I recall the banquet that we went to. I can't really
17 recall who he brought. There was a lot of people there, and I
18 can't really recall who he brought with him.
19 Q. You recall Mark being there, is that right?
20 A. Uh-huh.
21 MR. LAUGHRUN: Thank you, Mr. Hodge. Thank you, Judge
22 Potter.
23 THE COURT: No redirect?
24 MR. WALKER: Just briefly, Your Honor.
25 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
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1 BY MR. WALKER:
2 Q. Mr. Hodges, again on Government's Exhibit 14, when he
3 was applying to your company, did you ask him if he had ever
4 been convicted of a crime?
5 A. It's listed on the sheet, and I think he checked no.
6 Q. Look at that document and make sure what he checked.
7 A. Okay, the section here, have you ever been convicted of
8 a crime, is marked no.
9 Q. And you also on Page 2 of that form there is a place, is
10 there not, for reasons for leaving prior places of employment,
11 is that right?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And referring your attention to the first one listed
14 there, former employee, Camelot Music, he indicated a reason for
15 leaving Camelot Music. What did the defendant list?
16 A. I can't quite make that out on the copy. I can't read
17 it.
18 MR. WALKER: Judge, I don't have any other questions of
19 Mr. Hodges.
20 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. Call your next witness.
21 MR. WALKER: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
22 (Pause.)
23 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, the government would call Dan
24 Wilbur.
25 DANIEL WILBUR,
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1 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
2 DIRECT EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. WALKER:
4 Q. Sir, state your name and tell us what you do for a
5 living.
6 A. Daniel Wilbur, branch manager for Penske Truck Leasing.
7 Q. How long have you been a manager for Penske Truck
8 Leasing?
9 A. I've been the branch manager here in Charlotte for a
10 year. I've been with Penske for eight years.
11 Q. And Penske is a -- you can rent moving trucks from your
12 company, is that correct?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. Was your -- do you work here in a particular office in
15 Charlotte?
16 A. I work over on I-85 and Billy Graham Parkway.
17 Q. Was that office open and in business back in April of
18 1996?
19 A. Yes, it was.
20 Q. Does your company keep records of when an individual
21 rents a moving truck from your company?
22 A. Yes, it does.
23 Q. Are those kept as a part of the ordinary course of
24 business with your company?
25 A. Yes.
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1 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
2 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
3 BY MR. WALKER:
4 Q. I'm going to show you Government's Exhibit 15. I will
5 ask you to take a look at Government's Exhibit 15, and tell me
6 if you can recognize what that is, and if so, what is it?
7 A. What we refer to it as a household rental agreement.
8 It's what's filled out when someone rents a truck.
9 Q. Who is that particular agreement with?
10 A. The agreement is with Barnette, Aquilia.
11 Q. And where was the agreement entered into, at which
12 Penske store?
13 A. That was rented from our agent up in Roanoke, Virginia,
14 3301 Cove Road.
15 Q. Was it a truck that was rented?
16 A. I'm sorry?
17 Q. It was a rental truck that was rented?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And where was the destination of the rental truck?
20 A. The destination was to be turned in at 2600 I-85 South.
21 Q. That's here in Charlotte, correct?
22 A. That is correct.
23 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move the admission of
24 that exhibit, Government's Exhibit 15.
25 THE COURT: All right, sir. Mr. Wilbur, you are the
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1 custodian of those records, are you?
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, we keep them as well as Atlanta, yes.
3 THE COURT: They will be admitted.
4 MR. WALKER: I don't have any other questions, Your
5 Honor.
6 THE COURT: Cross?
7 MR. WILLIAMS: No questions.
8 THE COURT: Thank you, sir, call your next witness, you
9 may step down.
10 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, may we take a morning break at
11 this time?
12 THE COURT: All right, sir. Little early, but we'll
13 take it. Members of the jury, do not discuss the case among
14 yourselves. Go back and see if Ms. Grier has made you some good
15 coffee at this point.
16 Excuse me, did she have an exhibit in her hand, Sammy?
17 Sammy, go back and tell them to bring the exhibit back and put
18 it on the chair.
19 (The Clerk retrieves exhibit from a juror.)
20 (The jury left the courtroom.)
21 THE COURT: Recess until 10:50.
22 (Brief recess.)
23 THE COURT: Call the jury.
24 (The jury returned to the courtroom.)
25 THE COURT: Members of the jury, I may have neglected to
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1 tell you, if you have an exhibit which has been passed around to
2 you in your hand whenever we have a recess, just leave it on
3 your chair, because I don't want my exhibits back in the jury
4 room until you get ready for your deliberations. You will have
5 them all back there for your deliberations, so do not try to
6 take them back and preview them right now.
7 One other thing I want to mention to you as a practical
8 matter, if you go out at lunch, you probably ought to get your
9 raincoat because I understand the it's going to raining hard
10 this afternoon. It may not be, but that's what the weather man
11 says.
12 All right, call your next witness.
13 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Sara
14 Aldridge.
15 SARAH ALDRIDGE,
16 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. CONRAD:
19 Q. Would you state your name for the jury and spell your
20 last name for the court reporter?
21 A. Sara Aldridge, A-L-D-R-I-D-G-E.
22 Q. Sarah, how are you employed?
23 A. I'm a registered nurse at the University of Virginia.
24 Q. And in what department at the University of Virginia?
25 A. The burn unit.
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1 Q. How long have you been a registered nurse?
2 A. Three years.
3 Q. And have those three years all been in the burn unit?
4 A. Two and a half of them.
5 Q. Okay. And in April of 1996, what were your duties?
6 A. I was a staff nurse in the burn unit at the university.
7 Q. And what does a staff nurse in the burn unit at UVA do?
8 A. We provide total care for burn patients and chronically
9 wound care parents.
10 Q. When you say total care, what are you referring to?
11 A. We provide the wound care for the burns, we provide the
12 daily care, the medications, the assessments, the monitoring.
13 Q. And wound care, what would be involved with wound care?
14 A. In relation to a burn, we tank our patients each day.
15 That's a process in which we cleanse the wound, remove any dead
16 flesh, repair the wound bed for grafting.
17 Q. Now, tanking, that's a pretty descriptive term, what is
18 involved in that process?
19 A. Tanking is a word that's kind of a carry over from years
20 ago when a patient was submerged in a large pool of water.
21 Q. Uh-huh.
22 A. The way our unit tanks a person is on a large stretcher
23 that's lined with plastic, take them into a special procedure
24 room in which they are -- we use general flow water to wash down
25 their wounds with an antimicrobial agent called Sure Cleanse.
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1 Then we debride or remove the flesh that is not going to heal
2 and rewrap the wounds with various products according to
3 how -- what stage of healing they are in.
4 Q. And this process, is it a painful process?
5 A. Yes, sir. Without medication, it would be very painful.
6 Q. Is that because of the debriding or the removal of flesh
7 that you were referring to?
8 A. Not so much the removal of the flesh as it is the depth
9 of the burn. A first degree burn or what we would think of as a
10 sunburn is very, very painful. A second degree burn is also
11 painful. The deeper the burn or the third degree burn in and of
12 itself initially is not painful, because the nerve endings have
13 been destroyed. We use strong medications and ample medications
14 that are quick acting, that last a very short period of time,
15 and perform what we call conscious sedation.
16 Q. What kind of medications are those?
17 A. One medication we use a called Versed. It is a
18 benzodiazepine that helps to relieve anxiety. And the other
19 medication that we actually use for pain is Phentanyl, which is
20 an opioid that is kin to morphine, but it's very quick acting.
21 Q. In April of 1996, do you recall Robin Williams being a
22 burn patient at the burn center in UVA?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Relate to the jury how you first met her.
25 A. Our unit is very small. Our staff works as a very tight
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1 team in that each of us help to provide for all of the needs of
2 each patient. I first met Robin when she was in her room. She
3 had already received her first tanking. She was laying in her
4 room very quiet and still. She was not responsive to any
5 overtures at conversation for several days. She just was kind
6 of untrusting of us at first.
7 Q. How frequent were the tanking procedures administered to
8 her?
9 A. Once a day.
10 Q. And as a staff nurse, would you have opportunity to be
11 with her during that time period that she was at the burn
12 center?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Did you have any conversation with her?
15 A. Yes, sir, I did.
16 Q. And relate to the jury any conversation that you had
17 with her.
18 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
19 THE COURT: Excuse me, I will sustain that unless we get
20 into something more specific.
21 MR. CONRAD: Thank you, Your Honor.
22 BY MR. CONRAD:
23 Q. Did you discuss a protection plan with her?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Describe for the jury what a protection plan is.
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1 A. Near the end of her stay when we are making our final
2 discharge plans, Robin was due for grafting in the next day or
3 two, I took care of her on an evening night shift. We were
4 talking about her situation and what her plans were for
5 discharge, where she would go. She described to me --
6 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
7 THE COURT: Wait a minute.
8 BY MR. CONRAD:
9 Q. In the process of discussing this protection plan, did
10 you ask her about the incident which led to her coming to the
11 UVA burn center?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And what, if anything, did she tell you about that?
14 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
15 THE COURT: Overruled.
16 THE WITNESS: She told me that she had been in a fire,
17 that it had been started by her boyfriend, she had jumped from a
18 window. She told me that she wasn't sure whether she should
19 jump, whether he would be waiting for her at the bottom or if
20 she should run through the fire, but she realized she would be
21 engulfed had she run through the fire and she had no choice.
22 BY MR. CONRAD:
23 Q. Did she tell you anything else about the incident
24 itself?
25 A. That was the basics of it.
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1 Q. Did she tell you anything with respect to her future
2 plans?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. What did she tell you?
5 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
6 THE COURT: Overruled.
7 MR. CONRAD: Go ahead.
8 THE WITNESS: She told me that she would be going home
9 with family in the Roanoke area or in southwest Virginia area.
10 She told me -- I asked her specifically if she felt that that
11 was far enough way that she would be safe, to which she told me
12 that it wouldn't matter where she went, that she was not going
13 to be safe.
14 BY MR. CONRAD:
15 Q. Now, you indicated that she was near the end of her
16 stay, ready for grafting, what did you mean by that?
17 A. When a person receives a third degree burn, the skin
18 will not regenerate, it will not heal, and skin from another
19 area of the body has to be removed and surgically implanted over
20 the area that has been burned.
21 Q. Now, so do I understand her course of treatment to be
22 one of trying to get the skin to regenerate for the first part
23 of her stay and the second phase being the skin grafting
24 procedures?
25 A. Robin had several levels of injury. The first and
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1 second degree burns were promoted to heal and regenerate on
2 their own. The third degree burns that she received primarily
3 on her hands were not going to heal. It's fairly obvious after
4 the first 48 hours, and then it's preparing the wound bed. So
5 we did a little of all of it.
6 Q. Did she eventually undergo skin grafting?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And what is involved in that?
9 A. They are taken to the operating room. Under general
10 anesthesia, skin is removed, skin and muscle tissue if that is
11 needed, she needed just skin tissue, is removed usually from a
12 leg in the thigh area. It's then sutured onto the affected
13 area. As I recall, hers was what we call a split thickness skin
14 graft meaning that it was just lifted up from, say, if this was
15 the leg, and put here on the back of her hand and sewn down with
16 compression dressings to hold it in place until it adhered.
17 Q. And as part of her discharge plan, did you discuss with
18 her her future rehabilitation plans?
19 A. Yes, sir. She said that she would be receiving
20 follow-up care at the university for the foreseeable future.
21 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have, Judge.
22 THE COURT: Cross?
23 MR. WILLIAMS: No questions, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: No cross?
25 MR. WILLIAMS: No questions.
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1 THE COURT: Thank you. Call your next witness.
2 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, the government calls Jacob
3 Freshour.
4 JACOB BOYD FRESHOUR,
5 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
6 DIRECT EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. WALKER:
8 Q. Sir, if you will have a seat and lean back in that
9 chair, that microphone is very sensitive in front of you, would
10 you state your full name?
11 A. Jacob Boyd Freshour.
12 Q. And Mr. Freshour, what do you do for a living?
13 A. Manage Quik Pawn Shop.
14 Q. You manage the Quik Pawn Shop?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. How long have you been the manager of the Quik Pawn
17 Shop?
18 A. Four years.
19 Q. And that's -- how many locations are there of your
20 business here in Charlotte?
21 A. Four in Charlotte.
22 Q. Back in May, and specifically on May 20th and May 21st
23 of 1996, were you the manager of one of the Quik Pawn shops here
24 in Charlotte?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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1 Q. Which particular store was that, and if you'll raise
2 your voice just a little bit?
3 A. The freedom Drive branch.
4 Q. Did you, turning your attention to the morning of
5 May 20th of 1996, did you on that particular morning have
6 occasion to sell a 12-gauge shotgun to an individual at your
7 pawnshop?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And was that a Stephens 12-gauge shotgun?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Would you describe, do you remember if it was in the
12 morning or afternoon that you made that sale?
13 A. It was in the morning, slightly after we opened.
14 Q. Pardon me?
15 A. It was in the morning just slightly after we opened,
16 9:30 maybe.
17 Q. What do you remember about that sale, if you would tell
18 the members of the jury?
19 A. It was a pretty uncomplicated sale. The gentleman just
20 came in and said he was looking for a shotgun. It wasn't
21 rushed. We just looked at three or four, and that particular
22 one was, you know, the price range he said he was hunting for.
23 He filled out the yellow form, and very little conversation
24 during the sale.
25 Q. What name did the person give you?
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1 A. Mario Vonkeith Barnette.
2 Q. And you mentioned that you filled out some forms. Are
3 there particular firearm forms, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
4 Firearm forms that you have to fill out when you complete the
5 sale of a firearm?
6 A. Yes, sir, there is a yellow form on a shotgun that you
7 fill out.
8 Q. And tell the members of the jury why it's important for
9 your company to fill those out.
10 A. So we can track the gun. It establishes, you know, that
11 the person is not a felon or has a record or anything like that.
12 Q. Did this person present you with some form of
13 identification, the person who called himself Mario Barnette?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. What form of information did he present you on May 20th
16 of 1996?
17 A. It was from Virginia, a Virginia driver's license.
18 Q. Did you have him complete the form that you just
19 described?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And did that individual leave the store with the gun
22 that you sold him?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Describe that gun, what type of shotgun was that?
25 A. It with a pump shotgun, a Stephens.
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1 Q. Long barrel shotgun?
2 A. Long barrel shotgun.
3 Q. I want to turn your attention now to the next day, that
4 being May 21st of 1996, did you have an occasion to see that
5 same person again at your store?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. What time of day was it that you saw him again?
8 A. Roughly the same time, 9:30, quarter to 10:00.
9 Q. Did you wait on that person again?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. What happened on that occasion?
12 A. We give a warranty on our guns, used guns of a year.
13 And he brought the gun home, said he took it home, it was
14 malfunctioning, there was a broken part on it and wanted to
15 exchange it for another gun.
16 Q. Did you talk with him about that?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And did you allow an exchange for another gun?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Tell the members of the jury about that transaction.
21 A. He brought the gun in, and we don't have a gunsmith on
22 premise or any way to fire the guns, and so I just exchanged the
23 gun for a Winchester semiautomatic shotgun, long barrel.
24 Q. And did you have this person who called himself Mario
25 Barnette then fill out a second ATF form that you described?
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1 A. Yes. Each gun has to have a yellow form.
2 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 BY MR. WALKER:
5 Q. I want to show you, Mr. Freshour, what has been marked
6 as Government's Exhibits 18A and 18B. Referring your attention
7 first to Government's Exhibit 18A, would you take a look at 18A
8 and tell me if you recognize that document, and if so, what is
9 it?
10 A. Yes, sir, it's a document to transfer ownership of the
11 shotgun from us to the customer.
12 Q. And is that the document that you completed on the first
13 sale of the shotgun that you described?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Now, referring your -- are those the documents that your
16 company keeps in the regular course of business?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Explain to the members of the jury how those documents
19 are filled out, in other words, do you complete all of the
20 questions or how is that done?
21 A. No, the customer completes the first half that gives
22 address, the name and the date of the transaction, answers a
23 series of questions and then their signature. And then below
24 that, we check a box that says they have identified themselves
25 with a form of I.D., fill out the I.D., the shotgun, the model,
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1 the serial number if applicable, caliber, Stephens, and stamp it
2 with our gun permit number and sign it and date it.
3 Q. Now, you said there was a series of questions on here
4 that the buyer, potential buyer fills out. Does the person have
5 to fill that out before you will sell them the firearm?
6 A. Yes, and if they fill it out wrong, we won't sell the
7 firearm.
8 Q. And when you say you fill it out wrong, what do you mean
9 by that?
10 A. If they answer a question like, are you a fugitive from
11 justice, if they put yes, then we will not sell them a firearm,
12 and we don't allow them to fill out another one.
13 Q. But when the person answers yes or no to those
14 questions, does your company do anything to verify a yes or no
15 or do you just look for a yes or no?
16 A. By law, you just look for a yes or no.
17 Q. All right. Now, let me ask this: What are question
18 number 8A, I believe, could you read that question if that's how
19 you normally ask or is asked of the potential buyer?
20 A. Are you under indictment or information in any court for
21 a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one
22 year, or formal accusation of a crime made by a prosecuting
23 attorney as distinguished from an indictment as presented by a
24 Grand Jury.
25 Q. And that particular form was filled out by the
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1 individual that you sold the first shotgun to who gave you the
2 name Mario Vonkeith Barnette, is that correct?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. And how did that person answer that question?
5 A. No.
6 Q. And what is the question right underneath that?
7 A. Have you been convicted in any court of a crime
8 punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, and
9 then it says no -- yes answer is necessary if the judge could
10 have given you a sentence of more than one year, a yes answer is
11 not required if you have been pardoned for the crime, or the
12 conviction has been expunged or set aside, or you have had your
13 civil rights restored and under the law where the conviction
14 occurred you are not prohibited from receiving or possessing any
15 firearm.
16 Q. And in response to that question, have you been
17 convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for
18 a term exceeding one year, what answer did the person give you?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Referring your attention now to the third question, does
21 that read, are you a fugitive from justice?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And what answer did this person who called himself
24 Mario, what answer did he give?
25 A. No.
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1 Q. You mentioned that you fill out part of the form. Which
2 part of that form do you fill out?
3 A. Section B.
4 Q. Okay, would you explain that to the members of the jury,
5 how that's done?
6 A. The first part of Section B, it says to be completed by
7 the transferor or the seller, and it says the person described
8 in Section A is either known to me or has identified himself or
9 herself to me in the following manner. You know, we do not --
10 we don't ever let anybody check, is known to me. They always
11 have to have I.D. And then type of identification, whether it's
12 a driver's license or a state-issued I.D., has to have name,
13 date of birth, place of residence and signature, the number on
14 the identification itself, and then the next section underneath
15 that lists the type of gun it would be, pistol, revolver, rifle,
16 shotgun, et cetera, model number.
17 Q. Let me slow you down there just a little bit. Referring
18 your attention first to question number 9, type of
19 identification the potential buyer gives you, is that a block
20 that you complete?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And this is the form for the first sale, is that
23 correct, on the 20th?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did you -- what did you indicate as the form of
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1 identification that this person gave you?
2 A. I put Virginia, and then actually --
3 Q. Did you put Virginia identification?
4 A. I put Virginia I.D. We don't have to notate necessarily
5 D.L. or I.D., we just do it kind of for our records.
6 Q. Okay. Describe again briefly the type of shotgun that
7 you sold during the first transaction.
8 A. It was a Stephens shotgun, model 77-B, 12-gauge, just a
9 regular long barrel pump shotgun.
10 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move that exhibit into
11 evidence, Government's Exhibit 18A.
12 THE COURT: Let it be admitted.
13 BY MR. WALKER:
14 Q. Now, sir, you indicated that you saw the same person the
15 next day, is that correct?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And you said that was shortly after you opened, is that
18 right?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And you had him complete the same type of form a second
21 time?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Referring your attention to Government's Exhibit 18B, is
24 that the second firearm transaction form that you completed with
25 the same person on the 21st, the second day?
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1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And was that required in order for you to sell the
3 exchange of the first shotgun for the second shotgun?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And did you go through the same procedure with this
6 person as you had on the day previously?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. In other words, he answered the questions on the top of
9 the form?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And did you complete the questions on the bottom of
12 form?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. I want to turn your attention to box number 9, where on
15 the second form you wrote in the type of identification the
16 person gave you. Is that different than the type of
17 identification you placed on Government's Exhibit 18A, the first
18 day of the transaction?
19 A. The same number, I notated it for our records as a
20 driver's license instead of an I.D.
21 Q. Could you have made a mistake on that?
22 A. I would say yes, sir, I would say it's a driver's
23 license.
24 Q. Okay. What was the serial number of the second shotgun
25 that you sold the defendant?
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1 A. N 868530.
2 Q. And was that second shotgun a pump shotgun?
3 A. No, sir, a semiautomatic.
4 Q. Was it a long barrel shotgun?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. How did this person pay for these weapons?
7 A. Cash.
8 Q. And what was the amount of the sale?
9 A. With tax, $211.99.
10 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would also move admission of
11 Government's Exhibit 18B.
12 THE COURT: Let it be admitted.
13 BY MR. WALKER:
14 Q. Sir, if you were to see a replica or an exact model of
15 the first gun that you sold to this person on the 20th, would
16 you be able to recognize that and indicate that to the jury?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would ask Agent Modzelewski
19 to assist me in front of the jury and have the witness come
20 down. I want to show him an exhibit of that type of weapon if I
21 may.
22 THE COURT: What exhibit number is this?
23 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, this would be Government's
24 Exhibit 31E-2.
25 THE COURT: Step down, sir.
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1 BY MR. WALKER:
2 Q. If you will step down and I will ask Agent Modzelewski
3 to come around, and I will show you Government's Exhibit 31E-2.
4 If you will take a look at that item, it's been disengaged, and
5 indicate whether that is exactly like the shotgun that you first
6 sold this person who called himself Mario Vonkeith Barnette?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay, if you would turn around to the members of the
9 jury.
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And that's a pump action shotgun, is that correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. You may return to your seat.
14 MR. WALKER: I don't have any other questions for this
15 witness, Your Honor.
16 THE COURT: All right, sir. Cross?
17 CROSS-EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. WILLIAMS:
19 Q. Mr. Freshour, your shop is in Charlotte, North Carolina?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. You were selling a gun to somebody with an
22 identification from Roanoke, Virginia?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Did you ask that person why he was buying a gun in
25 Charlotte, North Carolina when he had a license and
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1 identification from Virginia?
2 A. No, sir. With a shotgun, as long as you live in a
3 bordering state, you can purchase a shotgun in any bordering
4 state to your state.
5 Q. When you take these applications and you sell people
6 guns, the purpose of the application and the questions in the
7 application is to inform you, if I'm correct, and correct me if
8 I'm wrong, that you want to know something about this person
9 before you decide whether or not to sell them a gun, correct?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And on that application, you have questions about their
12 prior criminal record and other things about the person,
13 correct?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Do you rely 100 percent on the answers that these people
16 give you before you decide to sell them a weapon?
17 A. Yes, sir, that's the law.
18 Q. That's the law. Did you or do you make any attempts
19 whatsoever to go down to the police department with these
20 applications and check the police records to see if they have a
21 record, either here or in the State of Virginia?
22 A. No, sir, we do what is required by law.
23 Q. If you knew that Mr. Barnette had a record, as indicated
24 on the questionnaire, would you have sold him that gun?
25 A. No, sir.
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1 MR. WILLIAMS: No further questions.
2 THE COURT: Redirect?
3 MR. WALKER: Briefly.
4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. WALKER:
6 Q. On both of the forms, did the person who bought those
7 two guns from you indicate his home address?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And what, if you will tell the jury, what address was
10 listed?
11 A. 1616 Keswick Avenue, Northeast, Roanoke, Virginia.
12 Q. And is that on both forms?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would ask permission to pass
15 these to the jury.
16 THE COURT: You haven't moved the admission of 31E-2
17 yet, I don't think.
18 MR. WALKER: As well, move that into admission as well.
19 THE COURT: Very well, it will be admitted.
20 MR. WALKER: I don't have any other questions, Your
21 Honor.
22 THE COURT: Thank you, sir, you may come down. Call
23 your next witness.
24 MR. CONRAD: United States would caller Earlene
25 Thompson.
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1 EARLENE THOMPSON,
2 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. CONRAD:
5 Q. Would you please state your name for the jury, spelling
6 your last name for the court reporter?
7 A. Earlene Thompson, T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N.
8 Q. Ms. Thompson, where do you live?
9 A. 904 Loudon, apartment A.
10 Q. You are going to have to speak up a little bit, okay?
11 A. 904 Loudon in Roanoke, apartment A.
12 Q. And how long have you lived there?
13 A. Two years.
14 Q. And were you living there in April of 1996?
15 A. Yes, I was.
16 Q. How long had you been living at that -- strike that.
17 How long had you been living there in April of 1996?
18 A. About a month.
19 Q. About a month?
20 A. Uh-huh.
21 MR. CONRAD: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
22 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
23 BY MR. CONRAD:
24 Q. Ms. Thompson, can you come off the witness stand and
25 come up with me, please?
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1 A. (Witness complies.)
2 Q. I'm going to show you what has been marked for
3 identification as Government's Exhibits 21P, 21O, 21R and 21Q,
4 and do you recognize those photographs?
5 A. (Witness nods head.) This is my apartment there.
6 Q. Are these aerial photographs and ground-level
7 photographs of Loudon Avenue?
8 A. Yes, it is.
9 Q. And do they fairly and accurately show your
10 neighborhood?
11 A. Yes, it does.
12 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, move admission of Government's
13 Exhibits 21P, O, R and Q.
14 THE COURT: They will be admitted.
15 MR. CONRAD: Okay -- stay right here.
16 BY MR. CONRAD:
17 Q. Turning your attention to Government's Exhibit 21P, and
18 if you would stand on the side right here so all of the jurors
19 can see, would you show the jury where your apartment is?
20 A. Right here and right here (indicating), right here and
21 right here, in front of this car.
22 Q. Now, is it a duplex?
23 A. Yes, it is.
24 Q. Do you know Ms. Bertha Williams?
25 A. Yes, I do.
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1 Q. Can you show the jury where on this photograph
2 Ms. Williams' house is?
3 A. Right there, there, (indicating) there and down the
4 street.
5 Q. And do you know who lives -- this is a duplex right
6 here, is that correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. As you face Loudon Avenue, do you live on the left or
9 the right?
10 A. Left.
11 Q. Okay. So you -- on this side of the building
12 (indicating)?
13 A. Right.
14 Q. Do you know who lives on your right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Who lives there?
17 A. Sonji Hill.
18 Q. Has she lived there the whole that you've been there?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Does anyone live with you at 904 Loudon Avenue?
21 A. My daughters.
22 Q. How old are they?
23 A. They're 8 and 12.
24 Q. Does anybody live with Ms. Hill as far as you know in
25 the other apartment?
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1 A. Her daughters.
2 Q. How old are her daughters?
3 A. 12 and 3, I think.
4 Q. Go ahead and have a seat.
5 Ms. Thompson, you are going to have to speak up and into
6 the microphone. Do you remember the day that Robin was killed?
7 A. Yes, I do.
8 Q. What is the first thing that you remember about that?
9 A. Waking up to gunshots.
10 Q. And tell the jury, what brought that to your attention?
11 A. I heard gunshots, and I got up immediately and went to
12 the door.
13 Q. Do you know what time of day that was?
14 A. It was in the morning. It was about 6:30, 7:00 o'clock,
15 something like that.
16 Q. And what were you doing at that time?
17 A. I was in bed.
18 Q. And you heard gunshots, so what did you do after you
19 heard the gunshots?
20 A. Immediately I got up, went to the front door with the
21 phone in my hand, because there is a club that's right across
22 the street.
23 Q. You are going to have to speak up, Earlene.
24 A. There is a club that was right across from where I lived
25 at, so I thought it was that. So I had the phone in my hand
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1 calling 911 saying I heard gunshots.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. I had the door open at the time that I said I heard
4 gunshots.
5 Q. What did you see as you looked out the door?
6 A. I saw this guy standing in Ms. Williams' yard.
7 Q. And is that across the street?
8 A. It's across the street.
9 Q. And when you saw the guy standing in Ms. Williams' yard,
10 what was he doing?
11 A. He was facing the side door. He had the gun in his
12 hand. I could see Ms. Williams standing in her door holding a
13 child.
14 Q. Was she in the front door?
15 A. No, the side door.
16 Q. And she was holding her child?
17 A. She was holding a child.
18 Q. And then what did you did you see?
19 A. Then I saw Robin run out the front door, and she ran
20 across the street up the side of my yard.
21 Q. Had you met Robin before?
22 A. No, I've seen her and I've even waved and spoke to her.
23 Q. And she ran out the front door, what did you see next?
24 A. He was coming across the street. He was like in the
25 middle of the street. And I looked dead in his face, I looked
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1 at him and he had the gun.
2 Q. When you say he had the gun --
3 A. He had the gun like at a jar, it was like at an angle.
4 Q. Uh-huh.
5 A. And I just immediately hung up the phone and closed the
6 door.
7 Q. And why did you hang up the phone and close the door?
8 A. Scared.
9 Q. Okay. As I understand your testimony, you saw -- did
10 you see him run from the side door?
11 A. He didn't really run, he kind of like trotted across the
12 street.
13 Q. And how far ahead of him was Robin when she started
14 running out the front door?
15 A. Not that far, not that far. She was like up the side of
16 my house when he was coming towards the street.
17 Q. Okay. So again, you are on the left side of that
18 duplex, and she is running up on your side --
19 A. On my side.
20 Q. -- of the house?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And where was he when she was on your side?
23 A. He was coming up towards the street. He probably had
24 touched the street part by that time.
25 Q. Did you make eye contact with him?
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1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. Describe that.
3 A. Very scary feeling. I don't know, I just reacted so
4 fast. Automatically, I just hung up the phone and closed the
5 door.
6 Q. When you made eye contact with him, where was the gun
7 pointed?
8 A. Towards my house.
9 Q. And after you closed the door, what did you do?
10 A. I had went like, I went to my kitchen and I ran back
11 outside. I went back outside.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. The police had called me back to my house and I hung up
14 the phone again on them, because I guess I wasn't ready to talk
15 to them just yet. I called them right back as I got down my
16 steps, and he was dragging her down the street on the side of
17 the house.
18 Q. When you called the police back, what did you say?
19 A. I said, there is a man out here with a gun, he is
20 pulling this girl, you know, I told them that he is shooting out
21 here. He was shooting. He had shot up in the air.
22 Q. Now, when you first came back out, you said did you go
23 down your steps?
24 A. I went down my steps.
25 Q. There is a flight of steps that leads to the landing to
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1 your duplex, is that correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And when you went down those steps, what did you see?
4 A. I saw him pulling her down the side of the street on the
5 right.
6 Q. Okay. If you would come back off of the stand, please.
7 A. (Witness complies.)
8 Q. Using Government's Exhibit 21O, can you stand on the
9 side and show the jury where he was pulling Robin when you saw
10 him from your steps?
11 A. Right here, down this street.
12 Q. Now, where was he when you first saw him?
13 A. Right here (indicating) on the side of the house.
14 Q. And then when you were hanging up the phone and you made
15 eye contact with him?
16 A. Right here (indicating).
17 Q. And where was Robin when you said that she ran up the
18 side?
19 A. Right here (indicating).
20 Q. And now when you saw him pulling Robin, what else did
21 you see?
22 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I can't hear.
23 MR. CONRAD: Go ahead and take the stand.
24 THE WITNESS: Ms. Williams was terrified, she was
25 hollering, somebody help.
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1 BY MR. CONRAD:
2 Q. And where was she when she was hollering that?
3 A. She was up in the yard part.
4 Q. So she'd moved from the side door to her --
5 A. She was right with her the whole time almost. She was
6 right there with him when he was bringing her back down the
7 street.
8 Q. And what did you observe next?
9 A. When he shot, she turned to run, and when she ran to the
10 side of my yard, he shot her in the back.
11 Q. How far was she from her mother, Mrs. Williams, when she
12 was shot?
13 A. She wasn't that far from her.
14 THE COURT: Can you gauge it from here to the back of
15 the courtroom, will that help, would you say it's as far as the
16 back of the courtroom?
17 THE WITNESS: No, it wasn't that far. She was close.
18 She was close as -- it was maybe to the guy in the white shirt.
19 BY MR. CONRAD:
20 Q. As close as the court reporter is to you today?
21 A. Yeah.
22 MR. WILLIAMS: Objection, there's not what she said.
23 THE COURT: I will sustain the leading. Maybe you can
24 rephrase your question.
25 BY MR. CONRAD:
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1 Q. Can you use anything in the courtroom to judge the
2 distance between Mrs. Williams and Robin when she was shot?
3 A. Yeah, me the guy sitting in the second row, it was maybe
4 about that distance. It wasn't as far at all.
5 Q. And could you tell whether or not he was saying anything
6 to Robin before he shot her?
7 A. No. If he was, I didn't realize.
8 Q. And do you how many times he shot her?
9 A. He just shot her once in the back.
10 Q. And then what happened after that?
11 A. I was in shock after that. I remember Ms. Williams
12 running up on the porch, somebody help her daughter. Basically
13 it just went like that. She was just asking somebody to help
14 her daughter. I was in a state of shock after that happened
15 because I couldn't believe it happened, but I see him as he was
16 leaving.
17 Q. Tell the jury about that.
18 A. When he shot her, like I say, he didn't run, he just
19 trotted like to the car. And the car was like across the street
20 from where I lived at in a side alley. He backed up and left.
21 Q. And where was the car in relation to Mrs. Williams'
22 house?
23 A. If you go through the alley, if you go right --
24 Q. There's an alley?
25 A. It's like an alley -- I never been back there, but I
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1 know it's some type of alley that's right there.
2 Q. Behind Mrs. Williams' house?
3 A. It went right behind Mrs. Williams' house. It's an
4 abandoned house that's like on the corner, I guess was right in
5 there behind that house.
6 Q. Okay. And he trotted in that direction?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What did you observe next?
9 A. He got in the car, backed the car up next thing I
10 notice. And by then, I guess it took maybe a minute or so more
11 for the ambulance finally got there.
12 Q. Now, as he backed the car up, did you see the car?
13 A. Somewhat. I didn't really see.
14 Q. What did you see?
15 A. I saw the back of the car.
16 Q. And what did it look like?
17 A. Now, that, I couldn't tell you.
18 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, at this point, may I have
19 permission to play a 911 tape?
20 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
21 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, if I could move into evidence,
22 Government's Exhibits 20A and 20C.
23 AGENT MODZELEWSKI: Ladies and gentlemen, please take
24 your headphones, turn the power on so the green light is
25 visible, place them on your head so the blue bulb can be in
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1 contact with the antenna, please. Again, if you have any
2 problems, please raise your hand if you cannot hear anything.
3 (Tape played for the jury.)
4 THE COURT: Mr. Conrad, I'm not sure you moved the
5 admission of these.
6 MR. CONRAD: I thought I had, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: If you did, I missed it. All right, let
8 them be admitted, 20A and 20C.
9 BY MR. CONRAD:
10 Q. Ms. Thompson, did you recognize your voice on that 911
11 tape?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have.
14 THE COURT: All right, cross?
15 CROSS-EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. WILLIAMS:
17 Q. Ms. Thompson, I just have one question and I want to
18 make sure I understand it, and I appreciate it. I'm sorry to
19 have to ask you this question. When you said how far was
20 Ms. Williams from Robin when the shot was fired, I believe you
21 referred to someone on the jury in a white shirt. Is that --
22 are you referring to the second juror from the end on the front
23 row?
24 A. Yes, I'm referring to somewhere in that distance.
25 Q. Between that juror and you?
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1 A. Yes.
2 MR. WILLIAMS: No further questions, I appreciate it.
3 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. CONRAD:
5 Q. What is that a measure -- that distance is for what?
6 A. When he --
7 Q. How far were you from where Robin was shot?
8 A. I was standing on -- I was -- it's at the end of the
9 sidewalk of my yard, so maybe it's the same distance. That's
10 where I was standing.
11 Q. Okay, thank you.
12 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have.
13 THE COURT: Thank you, come down. Call your next
14 witness.
15 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Sonji Hill.
16 SONJI MARIE HILL,
17 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
18 DIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. CONRAD:
20 Q. Ma'am, would you state your name for the jury?
21 A. Sonji Marie Hill.
22 Q. And Ms. Hill, where do you live?
23 A. 904 Loudon Avenue, apartment B.
24 Q. How long have you lived there?
25 A. I've lived there about five years.
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1 Q. And who do you live there with?
2 A. I live there with my three daughters.
3 Q. And what are their ages?
4 A. I have a set of twins, they are 11, and a 3-year-old.
5 Q. And you said you've lived there for about five years?
6 A. Yes, I have.
7 Q. So in June of 1996, that's where you lived?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Let me turn your attention to the morning of June 22nd,
10 1996. Did anything happen on that morning, unusual?
11 A. June 22nd?
12 Q. Yes?
13 A. No.
14 Q. The day that -- I'm sorry, June 21st?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. The day that Robin was killed?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What do you first remember about that day?
19 A. I was on the phone with a coworker and we were talking,
20 and I heard a noise outside and I told her -- I had extended
21 cord on my phone, and I took the phone to the front door and I
22 saw Robin come out of the house and the accused go in front of
23 me.
24 Q. Let me ask you a couple questions about that, and if you
25 could, speak up into the microphone. Where do you work?
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1 A. Where do I work?
2 Q. Where did you work at that time?
3 A. At Allstate.
4 Q. And you were on the phone with someone at your
5 employment?
6 A. She was at home. She lived in Rocky Mount.
7 Q. And when you went to the front door, tell the jury what
8 you did and what you saw.
9 A. I hung up with her and called 911.
10 Q. You called 911?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Why did you do that?
13 A. Because Ms. Williams asked me to.
14 Q. What did you do next, what did you see next?
15 A. From after I called 911?
16 Q. Uh-huh.
17 A. I saw -- after I said they passed me, she came to the
18 bottom of the steps. And then once he caught her over the hill,
19 they came back down the hill and they were parallel to me.
20 Q. Now, go ahead step by step, tell the jury what you saw,
21 where were you -- were you at the --
22 A. I was actually outside on the porch.
23 Q. Okay. And you are on the right side of a duplex?
24 A. I'm on the right side, yes, I am.
25 Q. It's on the corner of Loudon and what other street?
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1 A. Corner of Loudon and 9th Street.
2 Q. 9th Street?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And what did you see when you were on your porch?
5 A. From my porch, I would have to turn to my right, and he
6 had brought her back parallel to me, which it's my porch then
7 it's a grassy area and then it's the street.
8 Q. Now, when you say he had brought her back --
9 A. He had her by her hair and was dragging her back down.
10 Q. Where did you first see him having her by her hair,
11 where was he?
12 A. He was up towards the hill.
13 Q. On 9th Street?
14 A. Yes. There is like a little hill that you have to go
15 up.
16 Q. Away from Loudon Avenue?
17 A. Away from, towards the back of the apartment.
18 Q. And what did you observe from the point in time where
19 you saw him having her by her hair, from that point forward,
20 what did you see?
21 A. I saw him literally dragging her back to be parallel
22 with myself. And they were having conversation, but I
23 can't -- I couldn't hear.
24 Q. You heard conversation, but you couldn't hear what --
25 A. Right.
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1 Q. Exactly what it was?
2 A. Right. I was more so focusing on Ms. Williams calling
3 me.
4 Q. So at the same time that you saw him grabbing her by her
5 hair, Ms. Williams was talking to you as well?
6 A. Yes. She was in the grass. He was this way and she was
7 sort of toward --
8 Q. What was Ms. Williams saying to you?
9 A. She was telling me, he has my baby, he has my baby.
10 Q. Other than having her by her hair, did he have anything
11 in his hands?
12 A. He had the gun in his hand.
13 Q. Describe the gun.
14 A. It was long, it was --
15 Q. It was a long gun?
16 A. It was a long gun, uh-huh.
17 Q. And what was he doing with the gun?
18 A. He had the gun down, and then --
19 Q. Did there come a time when you called 911?
20 A. Yes. When I was on the phone with 911, I guess he
21 realized that I was calling and I was asking what was his name,
22 what was his name. And then when he realized that I had the
23 phone in my hand, he pointed the gun up to me and told me if I
24 didn't hang the mother-fucking phone up, that he was going to
25 shoot me, and then I hung the phone up.
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1 Q. Where was he when he said that?
2 A. He was actually in the street, grassy area part of
3 the -- on the road.
4 Q. Was it on the 9th Avenue side?
5 A. Yes, it was on 9th Avenue side.
6 Q. How far was he from you when he told you all that?
7 A. He was the length of the corner of the apartment to the
8 grass, which would have been 50 feet, if that.
9 Q. Did you make eye contact with him?
10 A. I don't know if it would be eye contact. I saw him, but
11 I didn't see him. You know how you look but you don't?
12 Q. And you heard him?
13 A. Yes, I heard him.
14 Q. And what was your reaction to that?
15 A. My reaction was I hung the phone up and went in the
16 home.
17 Q. Why did you do that?
18 A. He scared me.
19 Q. Did you think he was going to shoot you?
20 A. Yes.
21 MR. WILLIAMS: Objection.
22 THE COURT: Overruled.
23 BY MR. CONRAD:
24 Q. Did you think he was going to shoot you?
25 A. Yes, I did.
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1 Q. Was the gun pointed in your direction?
2 A. Yes, it was.
3 Q. Now, you hung up the phone, went inside, what did you do
4 then?
5 A. Once I got inside, I have a front window and I have a
6 side window, and when I got inside, I pulled the -- I have
7 miniblinds, and I pulled it down. And when I pulled it down,
8 then that's when he shot her.
9 Q. Okay. And did you have anymore contact with 911?
10 A. Yes, after -- directly when I hung up with them, they
11 called me back. So enough time for me to get -- step back in
12 the house, they called me right back.
13 Q. Are you on the phone with 911 when the shooting
14 occurred?
15 A. Yes, I was.
16 Q. Where were your children at that time?
17 A. My youngest was still asleep and the twins were in the
18 living room with me.
19 Q. And what did you next observe?
20 A. In terms of after he shot her?
21 Q. You indicated that you pulled the blinds down?
22 A. I pulled the blinds down, and when he put the gun -- he
23 let her go and she sort of casually walked away, she didn't run
24 away, she casually walked away. And he cocked the gun, and
25 evidently it jammed the first time, and he cocked it again and
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1 shot her. The way my apartment is, the walls are very thin, so
2 you can --
3 Q. Now, when he shot her, how far away from her was he?
4 A. In distance to pull the gun up, I mean.
5 Q. Pardon me?
6 A. In distance for him, enough for her to walk away the
7 first time, to cock away. I mean, it couldn't have
8 been -- feet.
9 Q. A matter of feet?
10 A. A matter of feet.
11 Q. When was Mrs. Williams at this time?
12 A. She was close to her daughter.
13 Q. How close?
14 A. Close, close, close enough, not close enough to save
15 her, but close enough.
16 Q. As best you can in measurement terms, was she close
17 enough to touch her daughter?
18 MR. WILLIAMS: Objection, leading.
19 THE COURT: Overruled.
20 BY MR. CONRAD:
21 Q. Take your time. Did you hear my question?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. Just take your time.
24 A. Yes, she was close enough to touch her daughter.
25 Q. Now, after you heard those shots, did you hear
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1 Ms. Williams say anything?
2 A. He shot my baby.
3 Q. Did she say that once or more than once?
4 A. More than once.
5 Q. What happened after that?
6 A. After that, he just casually walked away. Once he got
7 past Loudon, he trotted to the car, which the car was in --
8 there is an alley behind Ms. Williams' home, and the car was in
9 the alley. And from there -- I'm sorry.
10 Q. Go ahead, so he -- do I -- he walked a certain distance
11 and then trotted a certain distance?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. How far did he walk?
14 A. I believe it was -- it wasn't like he just directly
15 darted off, it was more so a casual walking I guess once he
16 realized then to where he was standing to the corner of my yard,
17 and then from the corner of my yard, that's when he trotted.
18 Q. And can I ask you to come off of the witness stand for a
19 second. Let me show you Government's Exhibit 210, this aerial
20 photograph right here, can you show the jury where your
21 apartment is?
22 A. Right here (indicating).
23 Q. And can you show the jury where the shooting occurred?
24 A. Right here (indicating).
25 Q. And can you show the jury where he walked to and where
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1 he ran to or trotted to?
2 A. He walked here and trotted here, almost to this point
3 here (indicating).
4 Q. Is this the alley that you were referring to?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Does it go behind Mrs. Williams' house?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And did you see a car in that alley?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Where did you first see the car in the alley?
11 A. It was back here (indicating).
12 Q. So he reversed out of the alley?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Then what did he do?
15 A. He went that way.
16 Q. Describe the car for the jury.
17 A. It was a blue Honda hatchback.
18 Q. Ms. Hill, if you would keep your voice up as best you
19 can.
20 A. Okay, I'm sorry.
21 Q. Did I ask you to listen to a 911 recording last night?
22 A. Yes, you did.
23 Q. And what was that recording of?
24 A. Of my conversation with the dispatcher.
25 Q. Okay. And did you recognize your voice?
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1 A. Yes, I did.
2 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, permission to play 911 tape.
3 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
4 MR. CONRAD: Now, for the record, if I can move into
5 admission Government's Exhibit 20B, which is a transcript of the
6 911 phone call.
7 THE COURT: Mr. Conrad, I'm sorry, I had the earphones
8 on and I didn't hear what you said.
9 MR. CONRAD: I'm moving admission of Government's
10 Exhibit 20B, which is the transcript of a 911 call.
11 THE COURT: All right, sir, 20B, move the admission of
12 that, it will be admitted.
13 AGENT MODZELEWSKI: Ladies and gentlemen, please turn
14 your headphones back on so the green light is visible, put the
15 headphones on your head. Again, if you have any problems during
16 the play back, please raise your hand.
17 (Tape played for the jury.)
18 BY MR. CONRAD:
19 Q. Ms. Hill, is that an accurate recording of your first
20 911 call?
21 A. Yes, it is.
22 Q. It was disconnected at the point where the tape stopped?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Tell the jury why it was disconnected.
25 A. Because he told me to hang up the phone.
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1 Q. What did he tell you?
2 A. When I hung up?
3 Q. You hung up the phone, and why did you hang it up?
4 A. Because he told me to hang it up.
5 Q. And what were his exact words?
6 MR. WILLIAMS: Objection, asked and answered.
7 THE COURT: Overruled.
8 BY MR. CONRAD:
9 Q. Go ahead, what were his exact words to you?
10 A. Hang up the mother-fucking phone or I will shoot you.
11 Q. And so that's when it disconnected?
12 A. That's when I disconnected it, yeah.
13 Q. Now, did there come a time when they called you back?
14 A. Yes, they called me directly back.
15 AGENT MODZELEWSKI: Put your headphones back on,
16 please.
17 (Tape played for the jury.)
18 (Relative escorted from the courtroom.)
19 MR. WILLIAMS: Your Honor, defense counsel would like to
20 be heard in the absence of the jury.
21 THE COURT: All right, sir, at the side-bar.
22 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, I don't --
23 THE COURT: Members of the jury, excuse us for a few
24 moments, please. Do not discuss the case among yourselves while
25 you are out.
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1 (The jury left the courtroom.)
2 THE COURT: Mr. Williams?
3 MR. WILLIAMS: If Your Honor please, during the playing
4 of that 911 tape, I looked back and observed the family of Robin
5 Williams, and I understand and I empathize and I don't blame
6 them for reacting the way they are reacting. So please forgive
7 me, but I'm representing my client and I'm trying to make sure
8 he gets a fair trial, Judge. And Robin Williams' brother
9 starting pounding the seat and he was rocking back and forth and
10 becoming very agitated and I understand him doing so. The
11 marshal, one or two of the marshals had to go over to the family
12 and try to quiet. One of the marshals took the brother out of
13 the courtroom. This was going on while this tape was being
14 played in a very loud, screeching manner.
15 The jury recognized what was happening. The jury
16 members looked over and observed this. And Your Honor, we have
17 previously requested that all members of the family and everyone
18 else be sequestered from the courtroom for this very reason,
19 Your Honor. And with all great due respect to the victim's
20 family, and I have great respect for their loss and I'm sorry
21 for it, but I must on behalf of my client object again, renew
22 our motion for sequestration, not allow the families in here
23 because of the terribly emotional reaction that goes on in this
24 kind of thing. The jury sees it, they are affected by it, I
25 would respectfully argue. I would have to make a motion at this
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1 point for a mistrial, because of this outburst and because of
2 this happening.
3 THE COURT: Mr. Conrad, Mr. Walker?
4 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I became aware that the marshal
5 had one of Robin's brothers when they were simply just walking
6 up the aisle out of the courtroom. I then looked at the jury to
7 see what, if any, of them were paying attention to that. My
8 notion was the jury was paying attention to the tape. In any
9 event, Your honor, whether they looked up and saw Robin
10 Williams' brother being taken out of the courtroom by the
11 marshal or not, the marshal did what he is instructed to do, he
12 was removed quickly as I noticed it, and the jury should just be
13 told to disregard if there was an outburst in the courtroom.
14 Your Honor, these family members can't be expected --
15 first of all, they have a right to attend this trial and they
16 have a right to hear this testimony, and I would ask you to deny
17 Mr. Williams' motion. And I understand why he made the motion,
18 but they have a right to be here, Your Honor, and it's -- they
19 also have a right to their feelings. And we will talk to them
20 about how they are going to express those, but we would ask you
21 to deny that motion for a mistrial. And if Your Honor sees fit
22 or even sees the need just to simply tell the jury to not be
23 cognizant of any reaction in the courtroom. I mean, Your Honor
24 has probably seen that before and instructed juries like that
25 before, and that's simply the way to remedy the situation.
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1 THE COURT: Well, I was listening to the tape myself or
2 reading the transcript rather as well as some other things here,
3 and I became aware whenever I did glance up and saw the marshal
4 over there that something was happening. I did look at the jury
5 at the same time. I think the way I observed it at that time,
6 they were concentrating on the transcript as well as the tape.
7 I'm going to deny the motion for the sequestration of
8 the family members, because I think they're entitled to be
9 here. I'm going to deny the motion for a mistrial. I will
10 instruct the jury to disregard anything of an emotional nature
11 be demonstrated by the family of Robin Williams.
12 All right, call the jury.
13 (The jury returned to the courtroom.)
14 THE COURT: Members of the jury, this tape which was
15 just played, of course, had some -- sort of like the TV programs
16 you listen to that have a great deal of emotional activity on
17 the part of the caller, or the witness here. In the event that
18 you did observe any emotions on the part of the Robin Williams
19 family who is seated in the courtroom, I ask you or I direct you
20 to disregard that in anything. It's not part of the case. Part
21 of the case is the evidence in the case and not what their
22 reaction is in this matter. Thank you.
23 BY MR. CONRAD:
24 Q. Ms. Hill, are you ready to proceed?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. There is a part in that 911 call in which dispatcher was
2 asking you what his name was, and you were screaming out, what
3 is his name, what is his name. Do you recall that part of the
4 911 call?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did someone answer you?
7 A. Yes, they did.
8 Q. Who was that?
9 A. Ms. Williams.
10 Q. And what did she tell you?
11 A. Mark.
12 Q. And did she tell you Barnette as well?
13 A. Yes, she gave his whole name.
14 Q. Now, there was another voice I heard in the background
15 of the tape saying something over and over again. Do you know
16 who that voice belonged to and what she was saying?
17 A. Yes, the voice belongs to Ms. Williams and she was
18 saying, Jesus.
19 Q. Does that audio tape that we just played, does that
20 accurately record what you were saying on that morning?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Cross?
24 MR. WILLIAMS: No questions, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. Call your next witness.
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1 Thank you, ma'am, you may step down.
2 MR. WALKER: Your Honor the government would call
3 Officer Dean.
4 DANIEL C. DEAN
5 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
6 DIRECT EXAMINATION.
7 BY MR. WALKER:
8 Q. Would you state your full name?
9 A. Daniel C. Dean.
10 Q. What do you do for a living?
11 A. Patrolman with the Roanoke City Police Department.
12 Q. How long have you been a patrol officer with the Roanoke
13 City Police Department?
14 A. 6 years.
15 Q. I want to turn your attention back to the early morning
16 hours of June 22nd, 1996, did you -- do you remember the events
17 of that morning?
18 A. Yes, I do.
19 Q. Were you on duty at that time?
20 A. Yes, I was.
21 Q. Were you in the city limits of Roanoke, Virginia?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Where were you -- well, did you receive a particular
24 call concerning the 900 block of Loudon Avenue at some point
25 that morning?
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1 A. Yes, I did. I was sitting in the parking lot of the
2 YMCA which was located on the corner of Church Avenue and 5th
3 Street Southwest.
4 Q. How far is that in your estimation from the 900 block of
5 Loudon Avenue?
6 A. Approximately eight-tenths of a mile.
7 Q. When you say you were sitting at that location, were you
8 in a marked police car?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you were in uniform just as you are today?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. What happened?
13 A. I heard a dispatch come over the radio about a person
14 brandishing a firearm on the 900 block of Loudon Avenue
15 Northwest.
16 Q. What time was it when you first heard that call?
17 A. Approximately 7:10 a.m.
18 Q. Did you go -- when you say you heard a dispatch, was
19 that a direction for you to go to that location, or what do you
20 mean by that?
21 A. That was put out to all of the units, I was a south side
22 unit, south side of the city unit, I was not going to respond to
23 that, that would have been a north side unit call.
24 Q. Did you respond any way?
25 A. Yes, I did, the call escalated from a person with a
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1 weapon to subjects fighting. Eventually the dispatcher advised
2 that shots had been fired and a person was down. At that time I
3 activated my blue lights and siren and proceeded to the 900
4 block of Loudon.
5 Q. How long did it take you to get to that part of the
6 Loudon?
7 A. Probably less than a minute.
8 Q. And when you arrived, what did you see?
9 A. I arrived on the scene, I pulled my vehicle into the 800
10 block of Loudon Avenue and stopped. I saw a couple of people on
11 the street and one person was on the ground near the
12 intersection of 9th and Loudon.
13 Q. At the intersection of 9th and Loudon?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. When you say on the ground, describe the position that
16 the person was in?
17 A. At that intersection there is a small grassy area little
18 that meets with the road intersection there. This person was
19 laying on the hill with her head -- it was a female -- with the
20 head toward the roadway, her feet were towards the top of the
21 hill on her back.
22 Q. Did you later identify that person?
23 A. Yes, it was Robin Williams.
24 Q. Did you run up to Robin Williams at that point?
25 A. Yes, I exited my vehicle, proceeded up to the lady that
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1 was on the ground. There was another lady standing very close
2 to her. As I walked up, I did notice a red shotgun shell on the
3 ground near the lady that was laying on the ground.
4 Q. After you noticed that shotgun shell, did you go over to
5 Robin Williams?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. And describe for the jury exactly what you did and what
8 you saw?
9 A. As I approached her, I leaned down close to her, I
10 didn't get on the ground, I leaned over her. And at that time
11 she had made a slow gasp, and then she stopped, she made another
12 longer gasp of air, kind of gurgled, and then her body went limp
13 and there was no emotion from her at that time.
14 Q. You heard no more breath, is that correct?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. You say there was another female there, did you see a
17 person there that you later identified as Robin's mother, Bertha
18 Williams?
19 A. Yes, she was there. She was the female standing near
20 Ms. Robin Williams on the ground.
21 Q. And what did you notice about her when you first
22 arrived?
23 A. She was very hysterical, crying, she kept telling me to
24 not let Robin die. She said repeatedly, don't let her die. I
25 tried to assure her that rescue was already on the way, that
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1 they would be here shortly. She just continued to say, don't
2 let her die, don't let my baby die.
3 Q. Did you notice any wounds on Robin's body when you
4 looked at her?
5 A. Yes, she had a large wound to the upper left chest.
6 Q. What did you do with Ms. Bertha Williams at that time?
7 A. At that time to secure our scene, I wanted to get her
8 away to an area away from this area so that we could secure the
9 scene. She took my arm near the elbow very tightly, just
10 escorted her across the street to her residence at 911. The
11 whole time she was still begging me to help her daughter.
12 Q. Did you finally get her to -- get Ms. Williams to 911
13 Loudon Avenue?
14 A. Yes, I did. Once we got to 911 Loudon, we walked up on
15 the porch, there was a chair there. I had her sit down in the
16 chair, she was still very emotional, crying, she asked he to say
17 a prayer with her. I did that at that time, right there on the
18 porch. At that time rescue had arrived and was attending to
19 Robin Williams.
20 Q. Did other officers also arrive? You said rescue
21 arrived, did other officers eventually arrive?
22 A. Yes. As we were walking across the street other
23 officers were arriving on the scene beginning to secure the
24 area --
25 Q. When you say --
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1 A. -- and question witnesses.
2 Q. I'm sorry?
3 A. Question another people that were in the area.
4 Q. When you say secure the area, tell the members of the
5 jury exactly what that entails?
6 A. Basically what we want to do is find out what area the
7 scene would entail, and we use police tape as police line,
8 yellow tape to try to mark off which areas to keep people out of
9 the areas in case there is evidence that we may need to collect
10 so it isn't tampered with or lost.
11 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Yes.
13 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, may the officer come down and
14 join me in front of the jury briefly.
15 THE COURT: Yes.
16 BY MR. WALKER:
17 Q. Sir, if you'd come down and join me in front of the
18 jury, and I want to refer your attention to Government's Exhibit
19 21Q, and we will start with this end of the jury and proceed
20 down to that end of the jury. Would you indicate on
21 Government's Exhibit 21Q where you saw the body of Robin
22 Williams when you arrived on the scene?
23 A. Approximately this area here (indicating).
24 Q. Is that the intersection of 9th and Loudon?
25 A. Yes, it is.
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1 Q. And if you will walk with me down to this end of the
2 jury, and if you stand on the other side of the court reporter
3 and if I will stand here, if you point to the members of the
4 jury on 21Q where you saw the body of Robin Williams?
5 A. In this area here (indicating).
6 Q. You may return to your seat.
7 MR. WALKER: Nothing else Your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Any cross?
9 MR. WILLIAMS: No, sir.
10 THE COURT: Thank you sir, call your next witness.
11 MR. CONRAD: Officer C.R. Lee.
12 C.R. LEE
13 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
14 DIRECT EXAMINATION.
15 BY MR. CONRAD:
16 Q. Sir, would you state your name and occupation for the
17 jury?
18 A. Officer Lee of the Roanoke City Police Department.
19 Q. Officer Lee, how long have you been employed by the
20 Roanoke Police Department?
21 A. About seven years now.
22 Q. And in June of 1996, how were you employed?
23 A. As a patrol officer.
24 Q. In what district?
25 A. Work district A which is located northwest city.
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1 Q. Okay. On June 22nd, 1996, did you get a call with
2 reference to activity at 9 -- at the 900 block of Loudon Avenue?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. Would you relate to the jury what call you received?
5 A. Yes, sir. I was stationary in the 3000 block of Salem
6 Turnpike northwest of the city, received a call from dispatch
7 advising that a subject had entered a residence and then had a
8 female run out of the residence. At that time, we started going
9 closer, the dispatch center advised us again that a female
10 subject had a gun. At that time we started to run nearer and
11 found that the dispatch advised us that a male subject had
12 female subject in custody holding at gun point, at that time, we
13 were still drawing --
14 Q. Still what?
15 A. Growing closer to the scene.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. And the dispatch came back and advised that male subject
18 had discharged a firearm and the female subject was down. At
19 that time, we arrived on the scene, arrived to the 900 block of
20 Loudon Avenue northwest, observing at the intersection of 9th
21 and Loudon a female victim lying on the ground.
22 Q. All right, and what did you do at that time?
23 A. At that time, I went over to her and tried to see if
24 there was any type of life in the victim by trying to check her
25 pulse. Observing nothing, I stayed with her until the rescue
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1 squad got there.
2 Q. Okay, and what did you observe when you stayed with the
3 victim?
4 A. As I noticed her, I noticed her arms was over her head
5 as she laid on her back, her left leg was pinned up under her,
6 and a large wound on her side of her chest.
7 Q. Okay. Did you notice anybody else around her?
8 A. Not at that time, sir.
9 Q. What did you do next?
10 A. After the rescue took her over I proceeded to get
11 witnesses from the area.
12 Q. Did there come a time when you went to 911 Loudon
13 Avenue?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. Why did you do that?
16 A. Going back to reenact what may have happened, to see the
17 mother also that was inside the residence.
18 Q. And did you meet with the mother?
19 A. Yes, sir, I did.
20 Q. And what if anything did you say to her?
21 A. I -- she was very emotional, and she advised me that
22 Mr. Barnette was the suspect in this offense.
23 Q. And what did you do next?
24 A. At that time, I relayed that information to my sergeant
25 and helped secure the rest of the area.
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1 Q. Okay. Did you make a visual observation of the
2 residence at 911 Loudon?
3 A. Yes, sir, I did.
4 Q. What did you see?
5 A. At the back door, noticed that there were, at a side
6 entrance way there were three large gun shot holes in the
7 doorway. I also noticed on the door there was a footprint where
8 it appeared that somebody had kicked that door. There was
9 inside the residence there was debris from some type of gun
10 shot, bullet or shrapnel from that into some pillows, on door
11 framing, chairs, tables. It was more or less through the
12 apartment. At that time we tried to comfort the mother also.
13 Q. And then did you also begin the process of interviewing
14 witnesses or potential witnesses to the incident?
15 A. Yes, sir, I did.
16 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor that's all I have.
17 MR. WILLIAMS: No questions.
18 THE COURT: Any cross?
19 MR. WILLIAMS: (Witness shakes head.)
20 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, may we have a scheduling
21 side-bar at this time?
22 THE COURT: Yes, sir
23 (bench conference not recorded. ).
24 THE COURT: Members of the jury, we have some matters to
25 take up right now, so we will let go ahead and let you go to
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1 lunch, and ask you to come back if you would at 1:30 please.
2 Do not discuss the case among yourselves while you are
3 out or with anyone outside of the courtroom. Again if you have
4 any exhibits in your hand or transcripts or anything, leave
5 those in the chairs and they will be there when you come back.
6 Thank you.
7 (The jury left the courtroom.)
8 THE COURT: Mr. Conrad, I believe at side-bar you said
9 something about scheduling.
10 MR. CONRAD: Yes, Your Honor, thank you for allowing me
11 to be heard on the schedule. We went through 14 witnesses this
12 morning, we made sure that we had 20 witnesses to testify here
13 today, and five of those witnesses we decided in light of the
14 evidence coming in so quickly and some stipulations that we have
15 entered into with the defendant, that we could excuse five of
16 the witnesses. So we've been through 19 of the 20 witnesses
17 that we anticipated calling today.
18 This afternoon, we have two witnesses both lengthy
19 concerning the shooting at 911 Loudon Avenue, and other than
20 some stipulations, that's it with respect to that part of the
21 indictment, except for Dr. Oxley who is medical examiner in
22 Roanoke. This morning I fully expected Dr. Oxley to be here and
23 prepared to testify. This afternoon, I was informed that he is
24 testifying in state court and that the earliest flight he can
25 get to be here to testify in this court is 7:30 in the morning,
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1 and so we made arrangements for him to be here ready to testify
2 at 9:00 tomorrow. But he can't get here any sooner.
3 THE COURT: Okay, how long will the two witnesses you
4 have, how long will they take this afternoon.
5 MR. CONRAD: I think no longer than two hours total, and
6 I would hate to get into the evidence about the murder which
7 occurred in Charlotte and make the jury go back to the medical
8 examiner to testify about that findings in Roanoke.
9 THE COURT: Are you including cross-examination in there
10 as well.
11 MR. CONRAD: If the cross-examination goes like it's
12 been going since yesterday, yes.
13 THE COURT: Maybe something different with this one.
14 MR. CONRAD: I can also tell the Court, if the Court
15 will permit us not to delay putting on the Charlotte evidence
16 until tomorrow, I am confident that we can put all of that
17 evidence on tomorrow and be done tomorrow.
18 THE COURT: Well, we will hold you to that schedule.
19 See you at 1:30.
20 MR. LAUGHRUN: Could I put on the record, all that was
21 discussed in the side-bar was scheduling, nothing else was
22 discussed and you told us you would send the jury out and put it
23 on the record which Mr. Conrad did and that was all that was
24 discussed at the side-bar.
25 THE COURT: You're just completing the record?
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1 MR. LAUGHRUN: Yes, sir.
2 THE COURT: Thank you sir, recess until 1:30.
3 (Lunch recess.)
4 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, may I address the Court?
5 THE COURT: We don't have the defendant up here yet.
6 We're waiting for the defendant.
7 Okay. Let me put mine on the record first.
8 (The defendant is present.)
9 THE COURT: I'm going to put something on the record.
10 Mr. Williams had raised a point about the family over here being
11 emotional during the playing of the tape, and I can understand
12 why they would be emotional; however, I also understand that the
13 defendant was crying and making sniffling noises back and
14 forth. I just want to put that on the record, that happened,
15 this type of thing, it's going the happen when evidence of this
16 type comes up.
17 All right. What did you want, Mr. Walker?
18 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, it is the subject of the
19 stipulation, the parties have agreed to Exhibit 19, which is an
20 enlarged exhibit that we have over here of the map showing North
21 Carolina, Virginia, and Tennessee. We would move that in. That
22 is Exhibit 19. I don't intend to pass it to the jury at the
23 moment, but I would --
24 THE COURT: Wait a minute.
25 MR. WALKER: It Exhibit no. 19.
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1 THE COURT: 19? The map of North Carolina?
2 MR. WALKER: Yes, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: That's stipulated, and you are going to
4 admit that?
5 MR. WALKER: Right. It also contain parts of Virginia
6 and parts of eastern Tennessee as well.
7 THE COURT: Okay. Getting back once again to this
8 emotional business, I didn't observe either one of them, either
9 the defendant or the family, because I was, I guess reading the
10 transcript and looking at the jury. I usually look at them more
11 than I look at anybody else to see what's going on. And I don't
12 think they did, as I understand it, as I recall. They were more
13 concentrating on the transcript, and that thing was so loud, I
14 guess they couldn't hear anything.
15 All right. Call your next witness. Wait a minute.
16 Call the jury.
17 (The jury returned to the courtroom.)
18 THE COURT: All right. I hope everyone had a nice lunch
19 and had time to have lunch.
20 You may call your next witness.
21 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, the government would call
22 Officer Sacra.
23 CHAD RYAN SACRA,
24 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:.
25 DIRECT EXAMINATION
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1 BY MR. WALKER:
2 Q. Sir, would you state your full name and tell us what you
3 do for a living?
4 A. I'm Officer Chad Ryan Sacra of the Roanoke City Police
5 Department.
6 Q. And what do you do as a Roanoke City police officer?
7 A. I'm an evidence technician. I've been in that capacity
8 for five years.
9 Q. Would you please explain to the members of the jury what
10 your duties and responsibilities are as an evidence technician?
11 A. As an evidence technician, I respond to any major crime
12 scenes. Upon my arrival I search the area for pertinent
13 evidence; identify it as such; document it, both in writing and
14 with photographs; I collect the evidence; I process the evidence
15 for fingerprints; I package the evidence for later lab
16 submissions if necessary.
17 Q. Were you on duty in that capacity during the early
18 morning hours of June the 22nd, 1996?
19 A. I was.
20 Q. What time did you arrive at work that particular
21 morning, if you recall?
22 A. I arrived at work approximately 10 minutes to 7:00 in
23 the morning.
24 Q. Did you shortly after you arrived become aware of a call
25 concerning the 900 block of Loudon Avenue there in Roanoke,
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1 Virginia?
2 A. I did. At approximately 20 minutes after 7:00 that
3 morning, dispatch contacted me in the office; they advised me at
4 that time that there was a shooting that I had been requested
5 on.
6 Q. What did you do once dispatch made that request of you?
7 A. Once that request was made, I entered the evidence van
8 at the police department; I drove to the location at Ninth and
9 Loudon.
10 Q. Did you go to that location alone, when you say you were
11 in the evidence van?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. When you got to that location, tell the members of the
14 jury what you saw.
15 A. When I arrived at that location, the Roanoke Emergency
16 Medical Service ambulance was on the scene, and they were just
17 starting to pull away. The area at that point was being
18 cordoned off or taped off with crime scene tape. I approached
19 Sergeant Martin, who was on the scene, and requested that she
20 give me a brief scenario of what she had found.
21 Q. Now, when you approached Sergeant Martin -- let me back
22 up for just a minute. In your normal course of duties as an
23 evidence technician, do you have to speak to officers who are
24 already on the scene once you arrive on the scene?
25 A. I prefer to do so, yes.
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1 Q. Would you tell the members of the jury why you do that?
2 A. I do that so that I have a reasonable understanding of
3 what they know so that I know the areas to consider for evidence
4 immediately. During my search for evidence I have to prioritize
5 evidence in order to collect it also so that it won't be
6 trampled on, moved, or whatnot. So in my first brief with the
7 officers on the scene, I'm given an idea of particular pieces
8 that I may have to address first.
9 Q. And so was that one of the reasons that you approached
10 Sergeant Martin, you said?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And when you approached her, what, if anything, did she
13 say to you?
14 A. She indicated that a female was found across the street
15 from where we were speaking. When I looked across the street, I
16 saw an obvious area on the side of the street, it was just in
17 the grass, just off the street. There was a large amount of
18 blood. There was --
19 Q. I'm sorry, go ahead.
20 A. There was also a spent shotgun shell casing in the
21 street itself.
22 Q. And how close was the, in your estimation, was the spent
23 shotgun shell casing to where you saw the bloody area in the
24 grass?
25 A. It was approximately 10 feet away.
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1 Q. And when you first made those observations, were you
2 walking from 911 Loudon Avenue, or from which direction were you
3 approaching where you found the bloody grassy spots?
4 A. I approached Sergeant Martin from the 800 block of
5 Loudon towards Ninth Street, 911 Loudon would have been further
6 up from where I was.
7 Q. And correct me if I'm wrong, but had the victim, Robin
8 Williams, had she been removed in the ambulance rescue unit that
9 you described earlier?
10 A. Yes, she had.
11 Q. What did you do after you noticed the area in the grass
12 and the spent shotgun casing, what did you do next?
13 A. Sergeant Martin led me from that location to the
14 location of 911 Loudon avenue, where she said that some type of
15 incident had occurred at that location in relation to this.
16 When we arrived at that location, I found that there was an
17 officer posted at a door, which I later found was a kitchen
18 door.
19 Q. Let me slow you down there just a second. When you say
20 an officer posted at the door, when you say posted, what exactly
21 are you referring to, what does that mean to you as an evidence
22 technician?
23 A. Typically that means that there is some type of evidence
24 that is being protected at that location that nobody would move
25 in or out of that location.
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1 Q. Okay. And where did you see officers posted when you
2 went into the residence, the home there at 911 Loudon avenue?
3 A. There was an officer with the family, there was an
4 officer standing outside of the kitchen doorway.
5 Q. And did you later understand that 911 Loudon was the
6 home and still is the home of Mrs. Bertha Williams?
7 A. Yes, I do.
8 Q. Once you made those observations of the officers in
9 those location, what did you do next?
10 A. Once I had seen the obvious evidence that was there, I
11 began my phase in collection of the evidence.
12 Q. Tell the members of the jury the obvious evidence that
13 you saw before you began that phase that you just described.
14 A. Okay. The obvious pieces were of course the blood that
15 I had seen up on the Ninth Street location, the spent shotgun
16 shell casing in the street on Ninth Street. Outside the kitchen
17 door there were three spent shotgun shells. On that door itself
18 there were three very distinct holes around the dead bolt.
19 There was patterning such as the shot debris or shot from the
20 shotgun shell. This was seen on the stove just inside the
21 kitchen door, it was on the wall directly in front of the
22 kitchen door; I found it on top of an ottoman or a footstool in
23 the dining room; I found it on a leg of the dining room table; I
24 found it on two walls of the dining room where the shot had
25 scattered throughout the room. I also located a pair of
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1 sunglasses just inside that kitchen door. The kitchen door
2 itself, the exterior, there were smudges, dirt smudges at the
3 lower portion of that door, there was a small stain of possible
4 blood on the interior portion of the screen door, which was
5 about two-thirds open from the kitchen door.
6 Q. Let me back you up a minute to the three holes that you
7 say you observed in the side kitchen door. Describe, if you
8 would, for the jury exactly what you noticed about those holes
9 and what, if anything, was significant about what you saw.
10 A. Those holes were very cylindrical. The metal on the
11 outside of the door was bent inward towards the interior portion
12 of the house. And seeing the shotgun shell casings there, a
13 shotgun shell had been fired into the door, and those holes in
14 and of themselves appeared that the shotgun would have been held
15 very closely to that door when those rounds were fired.
16 Q. Did you take photographs of all of those items that you
17 just described?
18 A. I did.
19 Q. I want to also ask you if at one point during your
20 observations there and your investigation there, did you have an
21 occasion to look at the phone box at the outside of Mrs.
22 Williams' home there at 911 Loudon?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. What did you observe, if anything?
25 A. I found that three wires leading into the phone box
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1 appeared to have been cut.
2 Q. And did you also at some point observe the rear gate to
3 Mrs. Williams' residence?
4 A. Yes, I did. I found that to be partially open.
5 Q. The evidence that you've described, the shotgun shells
6 and the other evidence that you've described, did you collect
7 that as evidence in this case?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Would you please tell for the members of the jury in
10 detail how you collected that evidence and how that is done on
11 this case and in the normal course of business?
12 A. In this case, what is typically done is you photograph
13 the evidence before it's ever touched. After you take your
14 photographs, both wide range and close-up photographs of this
15 evidence, you move in, you examine the evidence for anything
16 that maybe attached, finding nothing or documenting anything
17 that is there.
18 Before you move the object, you have to do measurements
19 to be able to take the evidence back. This would become an
20 event where you could precisely place the evidence back where
21 you collected it from. These measurements are taken right
22 before collecting that piece of evidence. That evidence is
23 collected, placed into a sealed container. It could be a rigid
24 container or a paper envelope, just depending on particular labs
25 that you may submit it for later. You seal that envelope and
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1 initial that package as having been yours, and you submit it to
2 the property room, which is a secure facility.
3 Q. And did you follow that procedure with the evidence that
4 you collected at Mrs. Williams' homes as well as the evidence
5 that you located out in the street?
6 A. I did.
7 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
8 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
9 BY MR. WALKER:
10 Q. Officer Sacra, I'm going to show you several items here,
11 if you will bear with me as I show them to you one at a time.
12 Beginning first I will show you each of the items, and then I
13 will ask something about each item.
14 Beginning first with Exhibit 21A, looking at that piece
15 of evidence, have you ever seen that before; and if you have,
16 how can you tell?
17 A. My initials are across the tape of the envelope, as well
18 as it appears to be my handwriting has filled out the evidence
19 portion of it.
20 Q. Is that envelope in a sealed condition at the moment?
21 A. Yes, it is.
22 Q. Okay. Let me show you now, before I ask you again about
23 that exhibit, Exhibit 21C, as well as 21E, 21G, and 21I, if you
24 will take each of those one at a time and tell me if you
25 recognize those items and, if so, how you recognize them?
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1 A. Each of these items I recognize as the envelopes I
2 placed my evidence into from that same, each of these items are
3 sealed, they have my initials on them, they all appear to have
4 been handwritten by myself.
5 Q. And do all of the envelopes, do they appear to be in
6 substantially the same condition as when you placed the items
7 inside or used the envelopes and then sealed them as you
8 described?
9 A. Yes, they do.
10 Q. I'm going to ask to you take these scissors, and
11 beginning first with Exhibit 21A, if you would cut the top off
12 of that envelope and remove the contents.
13 A. (Witness complies.)
14 Q. Referring your attention now to what you removed from
15 there, and it's been previously marked as 21B, if you will take
16 a look at that particular item and tell me if you have seen that
17 before and, where you have seen it.
18 A. Yes, I have seen this item. It is the dead bolt latch
19 that came from the dead bolt of the kitchen door.
20 Q. Of the side of 911 Loudon?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. And tell the members of the jury why you
23 collected that as a piece of evidence. What was significant
24 about that to you?
25 A. The significance of this, first, in seeing the three
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1 holes in the door, I also found just inside the door, where the
2 door frame itself was broken away from the wall, this indicating
3 that even after three shots were fired into and around the dead
4 bolt, the door never gave, and that door had to be forced open
5 even after being shot three times. This was found laying in the
6 floor broken off as the door frame broke and this broke out of
7 the dead bolt.
8 Q. That's why you collected that as a piece of evidence?
9 A. Yes, it is.
10 Q. Is it in the same condition as you when you collected
11 it?
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move Exhibit 21A, the
14 envelope and its contents, and Exhibit 21B, the dead bolt lock,
15 into evidence.
16 THE COURT: Let it be admitted.
17 BY MR. WALKER:
18 Q. Referring your attention now, sir, to Exhibit 21C, that
19 envelope that you testified about, will you cut the top off of
20 that and remove the contents?
21 A. (Witness complies.)
22 Q. And you have removed an item that is marked as
23 Government's Exhibit 21D, if you will take a look at that item
24 and tell us if you recognize what that is.
25 A. I do.
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1 Q. What is that?
2 A. This is the spent shotgun shell that I located on 9th
3 Street at the intersection of Ninth and Loudon.
4 Q. Is it in substantially the same condition as when you
5 collected it at that location?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move admission of the
8 envelope first, 21C, and the shotgun shell, 21D.
9 THE COURT: Let it be admitted.
10 BY MR. WALKER:
11 Q. Referring your attention now to Government's Exhibit
12 21E, this evidence envelope, if you will use those scissors on
13 that and remove the contents.
14 A. (Witness complies.)
15 Q. And you have removed an item which is marked as
16 Government's Exhibit 21F. Tell us if and where you have seen
17 that item before.
18 A. This item is the spent shotgun shell that I located on
19 the steps to the kitchen doorway into 911 Loudon.
20 Q. And is it also in substantially the same condition now
21 as when you found it --
22 A. Yes, sir, it is.
23 Q. -- outside of Mrs. Williams' home?
24 A. Yes.
25 MR. WALKER: I would move, Your Honor, the evidence
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1 envelope, 21E, and the contents, the shotgun shell casing, 21F,
2 into evidence.
3 THE COURT: Let it be admitted.
4 BY MR. WALKER:
5 Q. Turning your attention now to Government's Exhibit 21G,
6 if you will unseal that and remove the contents.
7 A. (Witness complies.)
8 Q. You have removed an item which is labeled 21H, and you
9 removed that from that envelope, 21G. Have you ever seen 21H
10 before?
11 A. Yes, I have.
12 Q. How can you tell that you have seen 21H?
13 A. I've initialed each of these upon the collection to
14 refer back.
15 Q. And when you say you initialed each of these, you are
16 referring to each of the shotgun shells that you removed from
17 these envelopes?
18 A. All of them had my initials on them.
19 Q. Okay. And 21H, where did you locate that item?
20 A. This is the spent shotgun shell that -- there were two
21 shotgun shell casings beside a trash bag just off from the
22 kitchen doorway, and beside that there was the closest one,
23 which was this one, and then one further away, which I
24 collected.
25 Q. And is that item as well in the same condition as when
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1 you collected it?
2 A. Yes, it is.
3 MR. WALKER: Your Honor I would move the evidence
4 envelope, 21G, and the contents, the shell, 21H, into evidence.
5 THE COURT: Let it be admitted.
6 BY MR. WALKER:
7 Q. Lastly, let me turn your attention to the envelope, 21I,
8 if would unseal that envelope and remove the contents.
9 A. (Witness complies.)
10 Q. You have removed an item, and how is that particular
11 item marked?
12 A. It's 21J.
13 Q. Referring your attention then to Government's Exhibit
14 21J, have you ever seen that item?
15 A. Yes, I have.
16 Q. Does it also bear your initials?
17 A. It bears my initials.
18 Q. Where did you locate that item?
19 A. This was the second shotgun shell spent casing that was
20 located beside the trash bag furthest from the door.
21 Q. Is it in the same condition as when you collected it?
22 A. It is.
23 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move 21I and 21J into
24 evidence.
25 THE COURT: Let them be admitted.
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1 BY MR. WALKER:
2 Q. Did you also complete two diagrams of the area of that
3 block of Loudon Avenue as well as the inside of 911 Loudon
4 Avenue?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
7 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
8 BY MR. WALKER:
9 Q. I'm going to show you Government's Exhibit 21K and 21L,
10 and I will ask you, looking first at Government's Exhibit 21K,
11 have you ever seen that item before?
12 A. Yes, I have.
13 Q. Is that the diagram that you drew of the inside of Mrs.
14 Williams' homes there at 911 Loudon Avenue?
15 A. It is.
16 Q. And you have some markings on your diagram. Describe
17 what -- you have a legend there?
18 A. Yes. The legend indicates different points of evidence
19 that I located that were different items within the room.
20 Q. And I will also show you Government's Exhibit 21L. Is
21 that the second diagram that you drafted in this case?
22 A. It is.
23 Q. And does it show the intersection of Ninth and Loudon
24 Avenue?
25 A. Yes, it does.
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1 Q. Including the home, 911 Loudon Avenue?
2 A. Yes.
3 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move admission of 21K
4 and 21L.
5 THE COURT: Let them be admitted.
6 BY MR. WALKER:
7 Q. And let me also show you, Officer Sacra, referring your
8 attention first to Government's Exhibit 21M, does this appear to
9 be an enlarged edition of the diagram we just introduced?
10 A. It does.
11 Q. And again looking at this diagram as well, Government's
12 Exhibit 21N, does it also appear just to be an enlarged diagram
13 of the smaller diagrams that you drew?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And would these enlarged diagrams help you illustrate
16 exactly where you located these evidence items that you
17 testified about?
18 A. Yes, they would.
19 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, may he join me down in front of
20 the jury?
21 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
22 MR. WALKER: If you would come down, please, sir.
23 THE COURT: 21N, did you want to move admission --
24 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move admission of 21N
25 and 21M.
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1 THE COURT: Let them be admitted.
2 BY MR. WALKER:
3 Q. Turning your attention first, Officer Sacra, and I'm
4 going to first ask all of the members of the jury if they can
5 see this diagram where it's situated?
6 (Jurors nod heads.)
7 BY MR. WALKER;.
8 Q. Now, if you can, using that pointer, describe the item
9 that you located and the -- where you described the blood on the
10 grass when you arrived there at Loudon.
11 A. Myself and Sergeant Martin were standing at this
12 location here, I found the blood to be in the grass just off the
13 pavement at this location, approximately 10 feet away from the
14 blood I found the spent shotgun shell casing on the street.
15 Q. Now let me also refer your attention to bottom of this
16 diagram. You have done a legend, is that correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Would you please explain each of the items, and I'm
19 going to hold that up so that the jury can read that, each of
20 the items that you indicated on your legend.
21 A. A is the spent shotgun shell casing located on the
22 street. B is the blood that I located in the grassy area of
23 beside the street. C is the telephone access -- I'm sorry,
24 telephone access covers. These were placed on the diagram to
25 indicate where I took my measurements from. D is the gate at
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1 the rear fence of 911 Loudon Avenue. E is the east side kitchen
2 door where the three shotgun, spent shotgun shell casings were
3 found. F is the residential telephone box. This was on the
4 back wall of the residence. G was the fence around the
5 residence itself, which encompassed all of this area. H
6 indicates sidewalks on both sides of Loudon Avenue.
7 Q. Okay. Let me ask you one more question. You indicated
8 that you used -- you put something on your legend to indicate
9 distance. Explain that to the jury. What measuring point did
10 you mean by that?
11 A. When we take measurements, we have to take measurements
12 from certain points that we can return to at some point and
13 replace the evidence where we located it. We look for permanent
14 objects to which we can go back to, something that's not going
15 to be moved by weather or by normal maintenance. These are two
16 telephone access covers. These are like manhole covers that
17 were located on this upper level of grassy area. These are
18 where I triangulated both points A and B when taking my
19 measurements.
20 Q. Okay. And I'm going to take this diagram down and
21 replace it with the other enlarged diagram, that being
22 Government's Exhibit 21M, and I will also hold this up for all
23 of the members of the jury to be able to read your legend here.
24 Would you indicate what you indicated on your legend and what
25 that signifies to you?
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1 A. A was the sunglasses that I located against the short
2 wall that separates the kitchen and the dining room, it was on
3 the interior of the house.
4 B is the shot damage, shotgun pellets that went through
5 the house. Anything that I found damage on I indicated here. I
6 found shot damage to the side of the stove; I found it on
7 the -- this short wall; I found it on, this was a footstool or
8 ottoman; I found shot damage on the leg to the dining room
9 table; I found shot damage to the drapes on this window, shot
10 damage also to this small wall here.
11 C was the east side doorway and door that had the three
12 distinct cylindrical holes around the dead bolt. I had taken
13 wood samples from that as well as selected some wood samples
14 throughout these rooms to be sure that they came back from that
15 door.
16 D was where I located the item I removed from the
17 evidence package, which was the dead bolt latch.
18 E was where I located some of the wood that I collected
19 to compare back to the door.
20 F is a blood swab and a control swab that I had taken
21 from the interior surface of the screen door cover in the
22 kitchen door.
23 G are spent federal shotgun shell casings located here
24 on the steps just outside, and then the other two which were
25 beside the trash bag.
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1 H indicates the ottoman which I found shot damage to.
2 I were more wood chips located just inside that door.
3 Q. You may take your seat.
4 You indicated as part of your duties as a crime scene
5 technician that you take photographs. Did you do that in this
6 case?
7 A. I did.
8 MR. WALKER: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
9 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
10 BY MR. WALKER:
11 Q. First of all I want to show you, beginning with
12 Government's Exhibit S -- 21S, excuse me, Government's Exhibit
13 21S, and I'm going to name these off and then I'll hand them to
14 you, if that's okay. 21S, 21T, 21U, 21V, 21W, 21Y, 21Z, and
15 21X, 21AA, 21BB, 21CC, 21DD, 21FF, 21GG, 21HH, 21II, 21JJ, 21KK,
16 21LL, and, lastly, 21MM. If you will take each one of those
17 photographs that I've handed you and indicate if you are the
18 person who took those photographs.
19 A. I am.
20 Q. And after you've looked at each of those, do each of
21 those photographs fairly and accurately show the outside of 911
22 Loudon and the contents that you collected from the outside as
23 well as the inside and the contents you collected from the
24 inside as you found them when you responded to that call that
25 morning?
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1 A. Yes, they do.
2 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would move all of those
3 exhibits into evidence, those photographs.
4 THE COURT: There's a number of them, let's just run
5 down them one more time.
6 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, that would begin with 21S.
7 THE COURT: 21S, going through --
8 MR. WALKER: It would be 21S through Z, and then
9 beginning again, Your Honor, with 21AA, proceeding through 21MM.
10 THE COURT: They will be admitted.
11 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, may he join me in front of the
12 jury?
13 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
14 BY MR. WALKER:
15 Q. Officer Sacra, if you would come down again and,
16 beginning with this side of the jury, using these photographs
17 pick them up one at a time and indicate by pointing on the
18 photograph why you took that particular picture.
19 A. This is a mid range photography shot of the telephone
20 access box that was attached to the rear of 911 Loudon Avenue.
21 Q. Okay. And if you would, go down to that side of the
22 jury and do the same because they may have had trouble seeing or
23 hearing what you said.
24 A. This is the telephone access box that is attached to the
25 rear of 911 Loudon Avenue, it's a mid range shot. We do three
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1 different types of shots when we collect evidence. We typically
2 take a wide range, a mid range, and a closeup of the evidence
3 itself.
4 Q. And referring then to 21T.
5 A. 21T, it's a little dark. What this is is a close-up
6 shot of the wires that had been cut leading to that box we saw
7 in the last photograph.
8 THE COURT: Don't forget these two jurors down at the
9 end.
10 THE WITNESS: One end that you can distinctly see would
11 be right here that had been cut.
12 BY MR. WALKER:
13 Q. Okay. And referring then to 21U, if you would do the
14 same with that photograph.
15 A. 21U is a photograph that was taken from the interior
16 side of the kitchen door. You can see the damage along the
17 edges of the dead bolt lock, so this would be where the shot
18 came through the door, this is the interior side of the kitchen
19 door, the damage being around the dead bolt.
20 Q. I'll ask you, before you look at 21V, you indicated you
21 also took photographs of the damage to the dead bolt on the
22 outside?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. Is that what is shown in 21V?
25 A. That is correct.
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1 Q. If you would indicate to the jury what you saw.
2 A. In this photograph you can see what I was describing
3 earlier, very cylindrical holes with the metal from the outside
4 of the door moving inward towards the inner core of the door.
5 This photograph was taken from the exterior of the kitchen
6 door.
7 Q. And there is no -- correct me if I'm wrong, but is there
8 any pellet damage other than around any of cylinder holes that
9 you described?
10 A. I found no pellet damage on the exterior part of that
11 door.
12 Q. Why was that significant to you?
13 A. That would indicate that the shotgun itself would have
14 been held very closely, if not right onto the door when it was
15 fired.
16 Q. And looking at 21U, -- I'm sorry, I believe I have
17 already shown you that one. 21W.
18 A. 21W is a mid range shot taking in the door and the
19 shotgun shell spent casings that were located around the door,
20 and in this shot itself the casings may not be very distinct,
21 but that's why we take a close-up. This is the kitchen door
22 itself. The shotgun shell casings would have been in the steps
23 in the trash bag area of this photograph.
24 Q. I will hand you 21X, if you will do the same with that
25 photograph.
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1 A. 21X is the three shotgun shell casings, spent casings
2 that were located outside the residence, one on the steps and
3 two by the trash bag. The spent casings, there is one on the
4 steps and two beside the trash bag. This is the one on the
5 steps and two beside the trash bag.
6 Q. And the trash bags that you described, are they shown in
7 the picture that you previously indicated, 21W, are they seen
8 there in that photograph?
9 A. The trash bags right here.
10 Q. And that's the same trash bag that you showed from a
11 close-up shot in 21X?
12 A. It is.
13 Q. Referring to 21Y.
14 A. 21Y is a mid range shot of the interior of the kitchen
15 door. If you look at this photograph, you will see the damage
16 to the wood trim that was holding the latch to the dead bolt in
17 place, and you can see that it's damaged, pulled away from the
18 wall. You can see the damage to the interior portion of the
19 door where the shot traveled through the door, the door frame
20 itself being pulled away from the wall towards the bottom, the
21 damage to the interior portion of the kitchen door. .
22 Q. And again with 21Z.
23 A. 21Z would be taken just inside that kitchen doorway.
24 This is the side of the stove that was just inside that door.
25 You can see the small marks and pits in the side of the stove,
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1 and this is what I indicated is shot damage, that had glanced
2 off of the side of that stove.
3 Q. As well as 21AA.
4 A. 21AA is the small inner wall that separates the kitchen
5 from the dining room and the shot damage located right on its
6 corner.
7 Q. If you would do the same thing with the other
8 photographs, beginning with 21BB.
9 A. 21BB shows debris, the interior of the kitchen door
10 being up here. Along the floor you will see wood chips laying
11 along the floor. And this is debris that carried from that
12 interior side of the door across to the dining room. I was
13 standing in the dining room when I took this photograph.
14 21CC indicates a close-up that I took of the area around
15 the interior side of the kitchen door.
16 Q. There is also another item in that photograph. Is that
17 a -- what is that item placed in the photograph for?
18 A. The scale?
19 Q. Right.
20 A. The scale is placed in the close-up diagrams so that you
21 know the approximate size of what you are working with, and it
22 also gives the ability to check these photographs to see if
23 possibly they have been altered.
24 This shows the damage around the dead bolt lock,
25 interior side of the kitchen door.
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1 Q. 21CC?
2 A. 21CC is also a close-up. It is the shot damage on the
3 short wall separating the kitchen and dining room. This is the
4 same as a picture you saw earlier, only this one has the scale
5 in it.
6 21DD indicates the damage to the dining room chair, the
7 dining room table leg. This would be another table leg, the
8 further side of the room. If you see the small white specs in
9 the photograph and the wood chips along the floor, this is
10 damage away from the actual door itself in the dining room.
11 THE COURT: Officer Sacra, if you would, be sure these
12 two jurors on the end see it.
13 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry.
14 BY MR. WALKER:
15 Q. Referring your attention then, skipping over 21EE,
16 looking at 21FF.
17 A. 21FF indicates the shotgun shell which was closest to
18 the kitchen door next to the trash bag. There were three
19 shotgun shells, one on the steps; there was a second, which was
20 this one, which is closest to the door; and a third which was
21 laying right directly beside the trash bag, which was furthest
22 away. This would be the second. It has the scale in it, and
23 again, indicating a close-up view of the spent shotgun shell.
24 Q. Looking at 21GG.
25 A. 21GG would be the third shotgun shell, or the one
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1 furthest away from the kitchen door, laying directly beside the
2 trash bag.
3 Q. And 21HH?
4 A. 21HH is indicating the shotgun shell that was located on
5 the steps itself, closest to the kitchen door.
6 Q. And 21II?
7 A. 21II indicates the spent shotgun shell that I located on
8 9th Street approximately 10 feet away from the stain in the
9 grass.
10 Q. And I'm going to give you now 21LL. Using 21LL would
11 you indicate what that is a photograph of?
12 A. 21LL is a photograph of the alleyway behind the
13 residence.
14 Q. And when you say residence, are you referring to Ms.
15 Williams' residence at 911 Loudon?
16 A. Yes, I am.
17 Q. And before I show you 21JJ I want to turn your attention
18 very briefly again to your diagram. Let me retrieve that.
19 The alleyway that you just described in the photograph
20 that you just presented to the jury, point out on the diagram
21 where that alleyway is, this being -- what I'm pointing to is
22 911 Loudon Avenue, is that correct?
23 A. Yes, it is.
24 Q. If you would describe where the alleyway is.
25 A. The alleyway runs from Ninth Street behind the residence
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1 and dead ends up towards Tenth Street.
2 THE COURT: Can you folks see that?
3 (Jurors shake heads.)
4 THE COURT: Mr. Walker, be sure those jurors can see.
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I have that marked on the
6 diagram as the alleyway.
7 BY MR. WALKER:
8 Q. And you said -- correct me if I'm wrong, but you said it
9 dead ends up towards me?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And it intersects the alleyway, doesn't it, Loudon
12 intersects the alleyway?
13 A. Ninth Street.
14 Q. I'm sorry, Ninth Street.
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. And referring your attention back to just two of
17 the photographs that are all in the evidence, 21JJ, indicate
18 what that signifies to you.
19 A. 21JJ is the shotgun, spent shotgun shell that I located
20 on Ninth Street approximately 10 feet from the blood in the
21 grass.
22 Q. Officer Sacra, the four shotgun shells that you have
23 shown the jury in these photographs, those are the four shells
24 that you removed from those evidence envelopes, is that correct?
25 A. Yes, they were.
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1 Q. Lastly, showing you 21EE, using that photograph --
2 A. 21EE is the blood stain that was located in the grass
3 adjacent to 9th Street where I was advised that the victim had
4 been found.
5 MR. WALKER: You may return to the witness stand,
6 Officer Sacra.
7 I think, Your Honor, I don't have any other questions of
8 this officer.
9 THE COURT: All right, sir. Cross?
10 MR. WILLIAMS: No questions, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may step down.
12 Call your next witness.
13 MR. CONRAD: The United States would call Bertha
14 Williams.
15 BERTHA LUCILLE WILLIAMS,
16 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. CONRAD:
19 Q. Would you tell the jury your name?
20 A. My name is Bertha Lucile Williams.
21 Q. Mrs. Williams, as best you can, go ahead and speak up.
22 A. All right.
23 Q. You are the mother of Robin Williams, are you not?
24 A. Yes, I am.
25 Q. How old was Robin when she died?
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1 A. She was 23.
2 Q. Ms. Williams, let me approach and hand to you what has
3 been marked for identification as Government's Exhibit 22 and
4 ask you, can you identify that for me, please.
5 A. That's my daughter.
6 Q. That's your Robin?
7 A. That's my Robin.
8 MR. CONRAD: Move admission.
9 THE COURT: 22 will be admitted.
10 MR. CONRAD: Request permission to pass this picture to
11 the jury.
12 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
13 BY MR. CONRAD:
14 Q. Ms. Williams, I know there are a lot of things that you
15 would like to tell this jury about your daughter, Robin, but I
16 want to direct your attention to her relationship with Mark
17 Barnette, do you understand?
18 A. I understand.
19 Q. Do you see Mr. Barnette in the courtroom today?
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. Would you please point to him, describe what he is
22 wearing?
23 A. He is sitting in between the lawyers here. He has got
24 on a navy blue jacket with gray pants.
25 Q. And you have met him before?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. When was the first time that you had ever met him?
3 A. In the spring, I think of '94.
4 Q. And go ahead and tell the jury how it came about that
5 you had met him.
6 A. He came up one Sunday -- well, he came up -- Robin had
7 met him at a club. She told me that she had met this fellow and
8 she said, mom, he is going to call me today, and I said okay.
9 Q. Now, did she tell you that the day after she met him?
10 A. That was the day after she met him. She met him on
11 Saturday night.
12 Q. And at the time that she had met him, was she living
13 with you?
14 A. Yes. She had never been away from home.
15 Q. Tell the jury about your relationship with your
16 daughter.
17 A. Well, she was my baby, my only little girl.
18 Q. And did she stay with you at your house?
19 A. She stayed with me. She had never been away from home.
20 She was even in my bed before she left. She had her own bed,
21 but she slept with her mommy. She called me mommy all of her
22 life.
23 Q. Now, on that Sunday that she told you the defendant
24 would call her, did you ever met him on that day?
25 A. I didn't meet him that day. He called and I answered
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1 the phone. And I had to go to church; and while I was at
2 church, she talked to him and she had went to where he was, to
3 Greg's house, or somebody's house, and got him and they had come
4 back to my house, but I wasn't there.
5 Q. Sometime shortly thereafter did you meet him?
6 A. I did. He came up and he went to church with her.
7 Q. Did you go to church with the two of them?
8 A. Well, I was already at church when they came, because
9 I'm Sunday school superintendent.
10 Q. Is that the first place that you ever met the defendant?
11 A. That's when I first met him.
12 Q. At church?
13 A. At church.
14 Q. Now, from that point of time forward, describe the
15 relationship your daughter Robin had with the defendant.
16 A. Well, she and Mark dated long distance, they would call
17 each other, she would call him and he would call her, and
18 sometimes her telephone would be bill would be $200 a month, she
19 paid it because she worked diligently. On occasions he would
20 come up, but then sometimes she would drive to Charlotte.
21 Q. Did you welcome him into your house?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. Why did you do that?
24 A. Because of Robin, she liked him. As a matter of fact,
25 she actually loved this boy, she thought the world of this boy.
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1 Q. Did there come a time when she left your house and moved
2 in on her own?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When did that happen?
5 A. They had been dating about a year long distance, and she
6 said mama, I'm going to get me an apartment. And I said why?
7 And she said well, I'm just going to move out and Mark is going
8 to come up here. The first they had decided to move to
9 Charlotte, but she was talking around and she spoke to her
10 brothers and they said no. They said if you are going to move
11 in with this boy, he comes here, you don't go to Charlotte. She
12 said that she told Mark this, so they decided to come to
13 Roanoke.
14 And she and I were out one day, and I said -- we were
15 talking about her moving out, and I said, well don't do it yet,
16 Robin, you know, it will be a lot more fun to live by yourself,
17 and you can go and come as you please. She said no, mom but I
18 love Mark, and I want to be with Mark. And I said okay, but I
19 said I don't want you to move out, I want you to wait awhile.
20 And she said, mom, I can't stay home forever. So I let it
21 alone. She was 21, I couldn't make her stay home after 21.
22 Q. Did she move out of your house, do you know when?
23 A. She moved out of my house in March.
24 Q. Of 95?
25 A. '95.
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1 Q. Now, you've been here for the whole trial, have you not?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And you heard the previous testimony, did you hear
4 testimony about an incident in June of 1995 when the police were
5 called to Robin's apartment?
6 A. I heard that.
7 Q. And what if anything do you know about that incident?
8 A. I know nothing about that.
9 Q. Did there come a time when you learned that things were
10 not going as well as they had originally gone between your
11 daughter and the defendant?
12 A. I think Mark had been -- I think he had been in Roanoke
13 maybe three, four months, and she knew she didn't want to live
14 with him anymore. She said, what do I do mama? She said, I'm
15 not happy. And I said well, just go downtown and tell him that
16 you're living with somebody and you don't want to live with them
17 anymore. And she did, and they told her the procedures, and she
18 he wrote him a 30-day notice. When she gave I to him, he
19 promised her he was going to be better. And she believed him
20 and things were fine for a couple of months, and it went sour
21 again. He had her to the place where if she didn't come home,
22 if she wasn't home two or three hours he was calling to see
23 where she was, she couldn't go out with her friends. If she was
24 with me on Saturdays to the store, she couldn't stay long, she
25 had to get back. She would come home -- after she was home, she
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1 would have to call back to let him know that she was still at
2 mama's.
3 Q. Did she from time to time stop living at the apartment
4 at Keswick and come live with you?
5 A. Several times, several times I'd look up and she would
6 come in, and I'd say what are you doing home? And she would
7 say, I'm going to stay with you mama. And she would stay with
8 me two or three days.
9 Q. Did she tell you why?
10 A. No. I knew things wasn't right there, and she would
11 come over and say I don't know what is wrong with Mark, and she
12 would stay home two or three days, put her cold feet on me, keep
13 me warm mommy. And she'd get up in the morning and say oh, I
14 slept so good. She would come home sometimes in the afternoon
15 at 4:30 and she would get on the sofa and go to sleep. I
16 was -- I always wondered why you come home to see me and go to
17 sleep. She just laughed because she was always smiling and
18 never complaining.
19 MR. WILLIAMS: Judge, Your Honor, please, respectfully,
20 I apologize for the interruption. For the record I would
21 respectfully object to hearsay testimony, and if we could have a
22 standing objection I would appreciate it.
23 THE COURT: We will have to take each question as it
24 comes.
25 MR. WILLIAMS: I didn't want to interrupt her every
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1 time.
2 THE COURT: Thank you.
3 BY MR. CONRAD:
4 Q. Ms. Williams, you were here for the opening statement,
5 were you not?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you hear the defense attorney talk about after your
8 daughter was killed that his client attempted to commit suicide?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did you hear that?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. In the year and a half before your daughter's death that
13 you were aware of her relationship with Mr. Barnette, did he
14 ever attempt to commit suicide to your knowledge, or did he ever
15 indicate that he was going to do that to your knowledge?
16 A. All the time.
17 Q. All the time?
18 A. He was always complaining about committing suicide, I
19 even saw him standing in the bathroom window at the apartment
20 one night threatening to jump out.
21 Q. Go ahead and tell me about that?
22 A. He had been down here to North Carolina for a couple of
23 weeks, and he had come back, and I guess he had been back about
24 a week and I got a telephone call late at night from Granny.
25 And I went down there, and while I was standing outside with
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1 Granny, she said Mark had been fighting her. I walked in the
2 house, and he was standing out the door, and I pushed him up
3 against the wall and I said why are you hitting her? I said, I
4 told her not to come back and get you, and she said -- he said
5 oh, you told her not to come get me? And I said yes, I did
6 because she is not happy. I waited until she packed her clothes
7 and I went and got in my car, she got in her car, I pulled off
8 and he was standing outside telling her he was going to kill
9 himself.
10 I pulled off, she pulled off, I got half a block away
11 and I looked back and I didn't see Robin. So I went back and
12 she was sitting looking up at the apartment. I stopped and I
13 looked up, and he was standing up in the window this way in the
14 bathroom window, and I said Robin come on, come on, let's go
15 home. And she came home with me. The phone range about 2:00
16 and he told her if she didn't come back he wouldn't be there in
17 the morning. And I said let's go to bed. And she said no mama,
18 and I said let's go to bed, he is not going to do that. 7:00
19 the next morning the phone rung and it was Mark.
20 Q. Let me jump forward just briefly to a time that you were
21 with her at UVA hospital.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. After the fire bombing.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Did she indicate to you at that point any concerns she
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1 had about the defendant?
2 A. Well, she told me, she said --
3 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
4 THE WITNESS: Well --
5 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
6 MR. CONRAD: I will withdraw the question judge.
7 BY MR. CONRAD:
8 Q. Do you know whether Robin ever called the defendant's
9 mother with respect to getting him out of her apartment?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What do you know about that?
12 A. I know she called her three times.
13 Q. And was --
14 A. One time in particular she called her, and I was
15 standing -- well, two times I know she called her, the last time
16 she called Robin she told Robin, well, he is just like his daddy
17 and y'all just need to talk --
18 MR. WILLIAMS: Objection.
19 THE COURT: Wait a minute, sustained.
20 MR. CONRAD: Judge, can I try to ask it in a way that
21 would avoid objection?
22 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
23 BY MR. CONRAD:
24 Q. You were there present on a couple of occasion?
25 A. I was will.
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1 Q. And you heard Robin's end of the conversation but not
2 the other end?
3 A. No, that's right.
4 Q. Did Robin ever -- strike that. Did you -- can I turn
5 your attention to the week of April 10th of 1996 and ask you
6 whether anything about that week stands out in your mind?
7 A. I think that's the night Robin and Mark finally broke
8 up.
9 Q. Go ahead and tell the jury what you know about that
10 night?
11 A. Robin had talked to me around 5:00 in the afternoon, and
12 she told me that she was going to tell Mark again that she
13 couldn't live with him. And she called me up about 11:00 that
14 night, and she said Mommy, I told Mark that I couldn't live with
15 him again. And I said what did he say? And she said nothing.
16 I got a call about 1:30, 2:00 in the morning, and the phone
17 rang. By the time I turned over to answer it it quit. Someone
18 said you better see who that is this time of night, and I just
19 pushed star 69 and it was somebody else on the line, and she was
20 saying your daughter, your daughter. And I said what are you
21 talking about, and she said --
22 MR. WILLIAMS: Objection.
23 THE COURT: Sustain the objection.
24 THE COURT: If you speak up when you have an objection,
25 I have to watch you to see what you are doing over there.
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1 BY MR. CONRAD:
2 Q. You pushed star 69, you talked to someone and then what
3 did you do?
4 A. I had to get up and go, the apartment was on fire. I
5 got up and woke my brother, I said come on, go with me Robin's
6 apartment is on fire.
7 Q. Ms. Williams, that is April 30th, that's the fire
8 bombing, I want to draw your attention --
9 A. I apologize, I'm just --
10 Q. That's okay, I want to draw your attention to a couple
11 of weeks before this?
12 A. This was the --
13 Q. When your daughter --
14 A. Oh, okay.
15 Q. You got a call, and where did you go?
16 A. I got a call from Robin that night, she had run to some
17 elderly people's house on the corner. And when I got there, she
18 was sitting in the police's car, she had on her bed clothes and
19 bare foot. It was cold, and I said where is your car, and she
20 said Mark got it, we couldn't get in because there were no keys.
21 Q. Where were the keys?
22 A. Mark had them.
23 Q. So what did you do that night?
24 A. I took her home, she went home with me.
25 Q. And then what did you do next?
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1 A. That next day?
2 Q. (Nods head.)
3 A. We went down to the relators office and got the key so
4 that they could get in.
5 Q. State whether or not you know if your daughter ever
6 called down to Charlotte on that day?
7 A. She called that day.
8 Q. And what was the purpose?
9 A. She talked to his mother. And I -- she told his
10 mother --
11 MR. LAUGHRUN: Objection.
12 BY MR. CONRAD:
13 Q. Did you hear that conversation?
14 A. I heard that conversation.
15 Q. I just want you to talk to me about part you heard, what
16 did you hear Robin say?
17 MR. WILLIAMS: Objection.
18 THE COURT: Overruled.
19 BY MR. CONRAD:
20 Q. What did you hear?
21 A. That he was not welcome back in her apartment, he could
22 not stay there anymore:
23 Q. Now after you got a new key from the landlord, what did
24 you do?
25 A. Robin and I and her uncle went out and bought new locks
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1 to put on the door.
2 Q. Would that be uncle Ray?
3 A. Uncle Ray.
4 Q. Okay. And did you put new locks on the door?
5 A. We put new locks on the door.
6 Q. State whether or not anything else happened on that day
7 that was unusual?
8 A. Well, on that day that was unusual? She stayed around
9 and they put locks on the doors, and about 11:00 or 1:00 that
10 morning, the phone rang and it was Mark. He had come back, you
11 know, to bring her car and a U-haul. I previously told her that
12 if the car wasn't back on Thursday morning that I was going to
13 report it stolen. I did not report it stolen because she
14 wouldn't let me, she said Mommy, he will bring it back.
15 Q. Had you cosigned on that car?
16 A. Yes, I had.
17 Q. Prior to that phone call, did you or her notice anything
18 about her property at her house?
19 A. Everything was intact, everything in the house was
20 intact. She had, you know, her TV, and everything was in the
21 house when we locked it up.
22 Q. Did something happen after that?
23 A. When she got there, well, he called at 1:00 that morning
24 and asked her why did she change the locks on the door. She
25 said because I didn't want you to take my stuff. She went on
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1 back to bed. I had to go to work the next day, but when she got
2 there, the next morning, her VCR was gone. And she called the
3 police, the police came but the police never did do anything.
4 Q. In addition to her VCR gone, was anything done to her
5 clothes if you know?
6 A. Her clothes were covered with bleach, her clothes, all
7 of her clothes were covered with bleach, there was syrup, syrup
8 and bleach poured down through her TVs, all of the clothes that
9 she had she had to throw away.
10 Q. Did she come back to stay with you?
11 A. She came home and she stayed home a whole month, almost
12 a month, and she stayed home. And the first night she went home
13 because she had to buy a bedroom suit, she got all of the
14 clothes washed up. The first night she went home, that was at
15 the --
16 THE COURT: You want to take a recess at this time.
17 MR. CONRAD: Yes, judge.
18 THE COURT: Members of the jury, do not discuss the case
19 among yourselves while you are out.
20 (The jury left the courtroom.).
21 THE COURT: You may step down, Ms. Williams, recess
22 until 3:00.
23 (Brief recess.)
24 THE COURT: Ready for the jury?
25 MR. WILLIAMS: If Your Honor, please, defense counsel
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1 would like to be heard in the absence of the jury.
2 THE COURT: All right, sir.
3 MR. WILLIAMS: Briefly, Your Honor, the defense renews
4 its objection to the statements of Robin Williams as testified
5 to by Bertha Williams. Our objection is based on Rule 804,
6 subsection five where the declarant is unavailable, and if Your
7 Honor please briefly, our objection is based on the fact that
8 the government has previously put us on notice of a recorded
9 statement under Rule 807 of Robin Williams that we exchanged
10 briefs and argued previously and court ruled that that would
11 come in.
12 The government gave us notice of that, the government
13 has not given us notice of any other testimony concerning Robin
14 Williams' statements as required under Rule 804, and therefore,
15 these statements are objectionable. We respectfully argue under
16 Rule 804 to strike any statements made by Bertha Williams
17 concerning Robin Williams that do not deal with the 807
18 material. And we renew our objection and move to strike.
19 THE COURT: Government.
20 MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, the objection under 804 (b)(5)
21 is not proper because that rule has been abolished, and we're
22 working with Rule 807, we did file a motion or a notice of
23 intent to use unavailable witness hearsay under Rule 807, gave
24 notice to counsel, briefed it. That motion included not only
25 the recorded interview with Detective Kahl but also other
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1 statements made by Robin Williams to family members, to friends,
2 and to health care providers. We also filed a memorandum with
3 respect to admitting evidence of prior relationship between
4 Robin Williams and the defendant Mark Barnette, and the Court
5 issued an order permitting that kind of testimony. And we gave
6 proper notice and you allowed it.
7 And I have tried very hard with this witness to confine
8 her testimony about what people told her, solely to what Robin
9 told her and not what she heard from other people. And I think
10 that's within the scope of your order and it should be admitted
11 and not stricken. Thank you.
12 THE COURT: All right, sir. I worked real hard on that
13 order, Mr. Williams, objection will be overruled on that point.
14 Call the jury.
15 (The jury returned to the courtroom.)
16 THE COURT: If you could pick up the microphones, that
17 way if I don't hear you --
18 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, Judge, I will speak up.
19 THE COURT: Mr. Conrad.
20 MR. CONRAD: Thank you Your Honor.
21 BY MR. CONRAD:
22 Q. If I could turn your attention now to the night of your
23 daughter's fire bombing. I believe you mentioned you got a
24 call, what did you do after you received the call in the early
25 morning hours?
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1 A. I woke my brother and I told him, let's go, Robin's
2 apartment is on fire. We got in the car and went down.
3 Q. Did you see Robin there?
4 A. Yes, she was in the ambulance when I got there. When I
5 got to the ambulance, she yelled, mommy, I'm all right.
6 Q. Did you go with her to the UVA Burn Center?
7 A. Yes, I did.
8 Q. Did you stay with her there?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. Did you stay there the whole time with her?
11 A. Stayed there the whole time. I left one day and stayed
12 gone about five hours, but I come back. I had business, but I
13 was back before night fall.
14 Q. And you came back to Roanoke to do what?
15 A. For business.
16 Q. When you -- when she was released from the hospital, did
17 she come back to Roanoke?
18 A. She came home.
19 Q. And did she live with you there until her death?
20 A. She stayed with me until her death.
21 Q. Now, turning your attention to that day. Would you tell
22 the jury what happened in the early morning hours of June 22nd?
23 A. I got up around 6:00, came downstairs, we went out on
24 the porch to sit and wait on my grand baby. She was supposed to
25 have been there at 6:30. She was late. So I was reading the
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1 paper. After she came I went on back inside, set her down in
2 the den in front of the TV. She was 8 months old. I went in
3 the kitchen and made a batch of brownies, put those in the
4 stove, and it was about 7:00, I remember looking at the clock
5 because I had to time my brownies.
6 And after I put the brownies in the stove, I walked in
7 the den and sat down, and I heard a big bang. And I said, God
8 oh mighty, my stove must be blowing up. I didn't know at
9 that -- well, I got up and I looked and I sat back down, and I
10 heard a bang again. Well, I didn't get up that time. Then I
11 heard another bang, and I got up and I looked. And I said to
12 myself, somebody must be shooting at my door. By the time I
13 turned around, Robin was at the bottom of the steps, and she
14 said, mama, what is it? And I said I don't know, somebody is
15 shooting at the door.
16 And I said -- I picked up my baby and stepped out the
17 front door and looked around, but I couldn't see the back door,
18 and I said I don't know what it is, Robin, it must be Mark. And
19 she started turning around and around on the floor, she didn't
20 know which way to go. And she said, mama, what do I do? And I
21 said, I don't know baby, I said, run, just run. And I was
22 standing in the door holding my baby. Out the door she went,
23 and when I turned around there was Mark looking me at my face,
24 he had that gun in his hand and he did like that (indicating),
25 throwed it this way. And I said Mark, don't shoot my grand
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1 baby. He said, where is she? And I said she's gone running,
2 leave her alone. Out the door he took. I set the baby down in
3 the hall and run back to the den and picked up the phone and it
4 was dead.
5 By this time my brother was trying to get down the
6 steps, and he said what is the matter? And I said Mark is here
7 and he's after Robin with a gun. I run out on the porch and I
8 started screaming, please, somebody please, call 911. And I
9 went back in the house and picked up the phone again, and it was
10 dead. And I ran back out the front door and run out the in the
11 yard, went across the street, run around the side of the
12 apartment house, and Mark was coming down the hill dragging
13 Robin. And I said, Mark, leave her alone. I said, you have
14 already disfigured her for life, leave her alone. He was just
15 pulling her by the hair, and he said, I'm going to kill her. He
16 said, I'm going to kill you, I'm going to kill myself. And then
17 he started talking about the police, he started talking about
18 some attempted murder, and he started rattling and rattling.
19 And as he was pulling her on down the hill, I walked
20 across the grass, they were stopped at the utility box and I
21 walked across the grass, walked over to Robin and got her by the
22 arm, I was leading her back across the street, and he started
23 saying something to Sonji on the porch, she was on the phone,
24 and just as we got ready to step up on the grass there was a
25 shot. I jumped and Robin put up her hands. I looked back at
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1 Mark and he was doing this (indicating), and just as she
2 started, I looked back at Robin just as she started to move her
3 feet as if to walk or run, he shot again and she fell. She
4 fell, and she fell right down beside me and I fell down on my
5 knees and I said, oh, God, she is shot in the side, and I got
6 down and I looked at her side and I didn't see anything. And I
7 pulled up her arm, and in here (indicating) she had a hole, and
8 you could see the debris, her flesh was hanging. And I grabbed
9 her and I said Robin, I said hold on baby, hold on. She was
10 gasping for breath. And I run, I said give me a phone, give me
11 a phone. And Sonji said, I don't have a cordless phone, and I
12 run up the stairs and I got her phone and I called my pastor,
13 and I said pray, pray, I said this boy shot my baby.
14 I hung up, and I called her brother, Kenny, and I got my
15 daughter, I said y'all come, Robin's been shot. And I ran back
16 to her, and when I got back down to where she was, I got down to
17 her, she said (gasping noise), and she never said no more. And
18 I screamed, and I screamed, and screamed. I just started
19 praying, and I just prayed asking God, please don't let my baby
20 die, oh, Lord don't let her die. And I screamed, and I
21 screamed, and I screamed. And the officers kept saying she is
22 all right, and I said please don't let her die. And somebody
23 come and got me and took me home.
24 Q. Ms. Williams, can I ask you one question. When that
25 first shot occurred, how close were you to Robin?
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1 A. She was standing right beside me, we were both stepping
2 on the knoll of the grass. And when she fell, she fell at my
3 feet.
4 MR. CONRAD: That's all I have, Judge.
5 THE COURT: Any questions?
6 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. No questions.
7 THE COURT: Thank you.
8 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry.
9 THE COURT: Do you have another witness this afternoon?
10 MR. CONRAD: No.
11 THE COURT: Members of the jury, I told you I was going
12 to let you go at 4:00 or 4:30, again we have a witness who is
13 coming and can't get into here until tomorrow about 7:30, so I'm
14 going to let you go early today. And we'll see you in the
15 morning at 9:30. Do not discuss the case among yourselves or
16 anyone outside of the courtroom, do not read anything about it,
17 don't look at anything on TV, don't let anybody talk to you
18 about it. Have a nice evening, see you in the morning at 9:30.
19 (The jury left the courtroom.).
20 MR. WALKER: Your Honor, quick item while I think the
21 jurors are still in the jury room. I believe I saw a couple of
22 jurors take their notes with them into the jury room right then
23 and I don't know if they were supposed to leave those in the
24 chair.
25 THE COURT: Really should leave them out here,
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1 I -- Sammy, go on in there and ask if they have any notes.
2 MR. WALKER: That was all I wanted to address the Court
3 about.
4 THE COURT: Let's see, I believe we have one more
5 witness, is that right?
6 MR. CONRAD: Yes, sir, we have the medical examiner who
7 cannot make it until the morning, and that's all the witnesses.
8 THE COURT: You finish that tomorrow?
9 MR. CONRAD: Yes, sir.
10 THE COURT: You gentlemen, are you going to have any
11 testimony or evidence do you think?
12 MR. LAUGHRUN: Your Honor not in Phase 1, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: All right, we will be ready to go to the
14 jury on Monday or Tuesday?
15 MR. LAUGHRUN: Yes, sir.
16 THE COURT: You want to work on the jury instructions on
17 Monday and wait until Tuesday?
18 MR. CONRAD: That's what we would prefer.
19 THE COURT: All right. Try to get the jury instructions
20 ready for you on Monday morning and then we'll have the final
21 arguments, closing arguments.
22 MR. LAUGHRUN: May we present to you our proposed
23 instructions tomorrow afternoon or sometime --
24 THE COURT: You better give them to me before the
25 weekend.
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1 MR. LAUGHRUN: We will bring them to you in the morning,
2 we have them pretty much ready to go --
3 THE COURT: Does the government have any?
4 MR. CONRAD: We will present some to you tomorrow
5 afternoon.
6 THE COURT: In that case, Monday we will go with the
7 instructions and go to jury on Tuesday.
8 MR. LAUGHRUN: Assuming we finish tomorrow.
9 THE COURT: They say we will.
10 MR. LAUGHRUN: If we don't finish can we still have the
11 charge conference Monday?
12 THE COURT: We won't start until Tuesday.
13 All right. See you in the morning at 9:30. Recess until
14 tomorrow morning at 9:30.
15 (Court in recess.)
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